Posted on 09/19/2012 9:05:44 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
I’m sorry to report that this also seems to be the case amongst the Catholics I work with and meet from around the country. They may call themselves Catholics, and they may even go to Mass, but when it comes to life choices they are virtually indistinguishable from everyone else in America. They don’t live radical Christianity out in any real sort of way. Their lives look just like the lives of their worldly neighbors. They don’t give any more than the average joe. They seem just as likely to divorce their spouses, have only 2.5 children as their non Catholic neighbors and they seem just as materialistic as everyone else. They attend church if they feel like it, but if there’s a weekend football game or the call of the beach house they’re just as likely to respond to that demand. When it comes to voting, they’ll vote as they wish according to wherever they get their opinions from–TV, the newspaper, the mass media–just like their neighbors. The one source they won’t consider when informing their vote is their priests and bishops.
Of course not all Catholics are so complacent, dull and worldly. There are some who will vote according to their Catholic conscience. There are a good number who will stand up for Catholic principles and allow their fundamental convictions to inform their vote. There are some who will vote as if their lives–and the lives of the future generations depended on it. If people want to discover what the ‘Catholic vote’ is they should talk to them. The difference between these informed and convinced Catholics and the other sort is clear to see.
What we are really looking at is the fact that the ‘Catholic Vote’ reflects the same two nation divide that is seen right across our country. You can even give names to the two types of ‘Catholics’ who make up these two voting blocs: Biden or Ryan, Kennedy or Santorum, Pelosi or Boehner. The divide is not just ‘right’ or ‘left’ or ‘Democratic’ or ‘Republican’. It’s those who’s political convictions–no matter how spotty and incomplete or faulty–are informed by the genuine teaching of the Church, and those who believe the Church should be informed by their political convictions.
Have I said it before? Every argument is a theological argument. The real divide is therefore between Catholics who believe their religion is a human and historical construct which can (and ought) to be changed according to the times and circumstances in which they live and those who believe that the times and circumstances in which they live are to be corrected and informed by the eternal, God-revealed truths of the Catholic faith.
If they want to assess the ‘Catholic vote’ they must poll those who believe the latter not the former for the latter is the Catholic faith. The other is called ‘historicism’ which is one of the gals in that brothel called ‘Modernism’.
Have I said it before? Every argument is a theological argument. The real divide is therefore between Catholics who believe their religion is a human and historical construct which can (and ought) to be changed according to the times and circumstances in which they live and those who believe that the times and circumstances in which they live are to be corrected and informed by the eternal, God-revealed truths of the Catholic faith.
This is in reaction to a Georgetown University poll released yesterday that claims the Catholic vote is currently split 50/50, while the Protestant/Evangelical vote stands at 51/40 for Romney. Also note that Monday's Gallup poll stated similar numbers:
Protestants...support Mitt Romney over Barack Obama by 13 percentage points. Keep in mind that black voters are mostly Protestant. That means that, included in this lopsided Romney vote, is a significant group of black Protestants who opt for Obama over Romney by 89% to 5% (Aug. 1 - Sept 16 data). Among white Protestants, the margin for Romney over Obama is 64% to 30% -- significantly larger than the gap among all Protestants. Catholics are almost precisely at the sample average.
Start excommunicating all Democrats and those who identify as such.
I guarantee that might wise a few of these cretins and reprobates up.
You could add that Catholics are just as likely to vote their pocketbooks as other groups.
Archbishop Chaput: I can’t vote for pro-abortion Obama
http://hotair.com/archives/2012/09/18/archbishop-chaput-i-cant-vote-for-pro-abortion-obama/
There’s a current conversation at hotair on this topic you might enjoy. In the 2010 elections, the Catholic vote turned 20 points for Republicans.
The basic problem Churches are having is the inability to speak politics from the pulpit.
The Corporal works:
1. Give cell phones to the workless
2. Money to the drug addict
3. Alcohol to the thirsty
4. Shelter the fugitive
5. Condoms to the promiscuous
6. Abortions to the pregnant
7. Bury the nation in debt
The Spiritual works:
1. Admonish the successful
2. Instruct all godlessly
3. Comfort the careless
4. Bear charity impatiently
5. Perceive all things as injuries
6. Resent the employed
7. Pay for the living and the dead
What we are really looking at is the fact that the ‘Catholic Vote’ reflects the same two nation divide that is seen right across our country. You can even give names to the two types of ‘Catholics’ who make up these two voting blocs: Biden or Ryan, Kennedy or Santorum, Pelosi or Boehner. The divide is not just ‘right’ or ‘left’ or ‘Democratic’ or ‘Republican’. It’s those who’s political convictions–no matter how spotty and incomplete or faulty–are informed by the genuine teaching of the Church, and those who believe the Church should be informed by their political convictions.
Have I said it before? Every argument is a theological argument. The real divide is therefore between Catholics who believe their religion is a human and historical construct which can (and ought) to be changed according to the times and circumstances in which they live and those who believe that the times and circumstances in which they live are to be corrected and informed by the eternal, God-revealed truths of the Catholic faith.
If they want to assess the ‘Catholic vote’ they must poll those who believe the latter not the former for the latter is the Catholic faith. The other is called ‘historicism’ which is one of the gals in that brothel called ‘Modernism’.
All priests can address ISSUES from the pulpit — addressing abortion, euthanasia, contraception, etc.
What they cannot do is endorse a candidate.
Hopefully we will hear more of the issues talk — I know my priest does. He talks about the holocaust of abortion all the time.
Also posted as a thread here on Free Republic.
There’s a current conversation at hotair on this topic you might enjoy. In the 2010 elections, the Catholic vote turned 20 points for Republicans.
I'd love to hear more about it - why not start/discuss the topic right here on Free Republic? I'd rather do that, than drive traffic somewhere else.
Before I forget (again), there's one more thread I want to bring up that goes along with this discussion: The Mythical Catholic Vote: The Harmful Consequences of Political Assimilation
The basic problem Churches are having is the inability to speak politics from the pulpit.
I respectfully offer another take on it - the basic problem Churches are having is the inability to fund themselves if they should speak politics from the pulpit. They can do it anytime they want, if their congregation would tithe a little more, and they're willing to have a nationwide conversation re the legitimacy of the 501(c)3 designation.
They have only voted republican 6 times in history (those by narrow margins), they are following some common ideology, some guiding force.
You should be far more concerned about the GOP deviating from Catholic teaching than the degree that Church teaching can be bent to endorse the GOP.
The GOP platform has varied significantly over the period of time you continue to harp about, yet Church teaching on things like abortion, contraception, same sex marriage, pornography, social justice and access to health-care has remained constant.
"Sir, my concern is not whether God is on our side; my greatest concern is to be on God's side, for God is always right” - Abraham Lincoln
Peace be with you.
That must be why Catholics voted democrat in 2008, and 2000, and why non-Catholic Christians are praying and hoping that Catholics will vote against the “abortion, contraception, same sex marriage, pornography, social justice and access to health-care” Party, this time, instead of voting like they usually do.
Very deep stuff you posted there.
Highlights the problem. We are not voting on Church teachings alone but for a politician who has zillions of other issues of concern to voters. And really what good are party platforms - candidates don't even read them and if elected will do nothing.
I don;t want to analyze your obsession or motivations with the voting patterns of those you define as Catholics, but I reject your persistent demand that you get to decide on who or what is an actual Catholic based upon nothing more than whatever definition suits your anti-Catholic rant dejour. Catholic is as Catholic does. Anyone can call themselves a Catholic, a Navy SEAL or an NFL Quarterback, but that doesn't make them one. When Catholics are limited to those who frequently attend Mass and adhere to Church teachings (i.e.; in Communion) your arguments disappear like flatulence in the wind.
Peace be with you. “The question to ask is this: Are any of the candidates of either party, or independents, standing for something that is intrinsically evil, evil no matter what the circumstances? If that’s the case, a Catholic, regardless of his party affiliation, shouldn’t be voting for such a person". - Archbishop William Lori (Head of the U.S. Bishops’ Committee on Religious Liberty)
Catholic’s are baptized members of the Catholic denomination who consider themselves Catholic.
Some here tell me that baptized Catholics remain so for life, even if they no longer call themselves Catholic.
By the way, is it possible for you to post to me without attacking me personally, without being insulting, and seeming to be carrying over a grudge every time you run into me on a thread?
Are you now claiming to be a spokesperson for the Church or the Magisterium?
While I have no sway over what you choose to believe, it is an intrusion for you to insist that Catholics accept your opinion as reality. Those who are in communion with the Church are Catholic. While the indelible mark of Baptism remains, those who have been baptized and to those who have been ordained, so too does Original Sin and our fallen nature. To paraphrase Matthew 7:21, Not everyone who says "I'm Catholic, I'm Catholic" will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who is in Communion with the Church will enter heaven.
Peace be with you.
Letter to Religious Leaders for Election Season 2012
Dear Religious Leader,
As Election Day draws near, candidates and their supporters may seek help or endorsements from your house of worship. Thus, this is a good time to familiarize yourself with the law governing electioneering by nonprofit organizations.
The First Amendment protects the right of all Americans, religious leaders included, to speak out on religious, moral and political issues. However, houses of worship and other nonprofit entities classified under Section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Service Tax Code are barred from endorsing or opposing candidates for public office and may not intervene directly or indirectly in partisan campaigns.
Any activity designed to influence the outcome of a partisan election can be construed as intervention. If the IRS determines that your house of worship has engaged in unlawful intervention, it can revoke the institution’s tax-exempt status or levy significant fines on the house of worship or its leaders.
Contrary to what some may believe, the IRS does enforce the “no politicking” rule. In 1995, the IRS revoked the tax-exempt status of a Binghamton, N.Y., church for buying a full-page ad in USA Today opposing a 1992 presidential candidate. (The federal courts upheld the revocation.) Other churches and religious ministries, including Pat Robertson’s Christian Broadcasting Network and Jerry Falwell’s Old Time Gospel Hour, have been subject to audits and retroactive tax payments for violating the “no electioneering” rule.
In addition, a special “Political Activity Compliance Initiative” has been created to educate houses of worship about the law and deal with reports of violations. (For more information on pulpit politicking, see the IRS Web site at: http://www.irs.gov/charities/churches/index.html and click on “The Restriction of Campaign Political Intervention by Section 501 (c)(3) Tax-Exempt Organizations.”)Houses of worship and other nonprofit groups may sponsor voter registration drives and candidate forums if they are truly nonpartisan, and issue advocacy is broadly protected. But remember, tax law prohibits 501(c)(3) groups from supporting or opposing candidates.
I urge you to be especially wary of so-called “voter guides.” Such guides are often thinly veiled partisan materials. If the IRS finds that a violation has occurred, it may be the house of worship, not the organization that produced the guide, that is penalized.
This letter is not intended to be a substitute for legal advice, and I urge you to consult with your legal advisor on specific questions. To learn more about issues surrounding religion and politics, visit our Web site: http://ProjectFairPlay.org.Thank you for taking the time to read this letter.
Sincerely,
The Rev. Barry W. Lynn
Executive Director
I'm an independent. No party represents my beliefs as a pro-life conservative Christian.
You need to notify the political world and the Vatican, and, and convince them that you are the defining authority for who gets counted as Catholic in election studies.
Also you can give them your new total for the Catholic population in the US.
I’m a lifelong Independent, but I wish that Catholics were not so devoted to the democrat party.
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