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To: count-your-change
My friend, look closer! Nobody's redefining "true believers". In 20 centuries the Church has never held up people who shed blood as moral heroes.

I can't think of any Catholic saint who was canonized because of military or sanguinary exploits. You won't find sainted torturers, slavers or warrior-kings. I cant think even of any canonized Crusaders except maybe Louis IX of France, and he was mostly a peacemaker and a just lawgiver who died before actually getting to the Crusade (died of some plague-related infection in Tunis.)

The very --very --- few sainted soldiers are vastly outnumbered by sainted EX-soldiers like Ignatius of Loyola, Martin of Tours, Francis of Assisi, who --- rather like the ex-sword-wielding Apostle Peter --- put down the sword and took up the Cross.

There's plenty of sin in Catholic history. But the perps were in those instances violating, not exemplifying, Catholic doctrine. The one saint I can think of who was famed for a feat of arms (St. Joan of Arc) is a solitary rare bird; there's not another like her.

32 posted on 09/16/2012 6:45:35 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Allah FUBAR.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o; marshmallow
I suppose then Pope Innocent III’s bloody campaign against the Albigenses during which thousands of them were slaughtered would disqualify him and his henchmen as “true believers”.
And I might add those who defend his murders also.

“.... the ex-sword-wielding Apostle Peter”?

Peter was told he was wrong to wield the sword and he didn't go out to burn and torture “heretics”.

34 posted on 09/16/2012 7:06:45 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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