Posted on 09/09/2012 8:41:47 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
The point that he made was that Beaton’s death hastened Scotland’s loss of independence. He has yet to offer an argument of any sort to support Beaton’s death as having any such effect, and he has explicitly admitted that he hasn’t offerred an argument.
My point about the loss of Scottish independence was not that Scotland ceased to be an independent country when the UK was formed, but rather that the same could be said for England. Moreover, with the excpetion of Cromwell, England has been ruled by non-English families since the death of Richard III. People can quibble about how much this matters - and I don’t say it matters a lot - but there is a romanticized view of England shared by some in which it is asserted that the English have always dominated the UK, and the fact of the matter is that England has often been ruled by foreigners, including foreigners who could hardly speak English and, in the case of the early Hanoverian Kings, didn’t like spending time in England.
All that matters from our exchange is that you repeatedly posted that I said this or that when I did not. Honesty and accuracy are important in these discussions. You, apparently, are unfamiliar with both.
One doesn't see a direct co-relation. Beaton's death could be argued as the last of the great anti-English Scottish patriots. And, as I pointed out, a Catholic Scotland in alliance with France was always hte English nemesis
My point about the loss of Scottish independence was not that Scotland ceased to be an independent country when the UK was formed, but rather that the same could be said for England -- well, yes and no. Remember that the English then pushed their language on the Scots and also moved decision making to London
England has been ruled by non-English families since the death of Richard III. -- correct, the Welsh Tudors, the Scottish Jacobins, the Dutch William, the Germans Saxe-Coburg-Gotha
England has been ruled by foreigners invited in by the barons -- there was a reason for this. William and the Georges had to give up a lot of their power to the parliament. And this was accelerated under Victoria.
What you have written is simply untrue. You simply wanted to smear Knox and got caught.
I think it would be hard to argue that Beaton was the last. As for the English language, by the time of James Scots outside of the Highlands could speak English. I think you’re right in the sense that English became more important after Union, but Scots Gaelic persisted in the Highlands until after Culloden.
You wrote:
“What you have written is simply untrue.”
Nope. Not a single thing I wrote is untrue and you certainly have not proved any of it to be untrue.
“You simply wanted to smear Knox and got caught.”
I never smeared Knox. I told the truth. Did you even read post 4 wher eI said Knox did not murder Cardinal Beaton?
“The sinner chooses to do so. God does not force us to be holy.”
Hence the fallacy of the “indwelling” of the HS. If there were such an indwelling it would be impossible for us to sin with god dwelling in us.
“False. The Church of Rome never did any such thing nor authorized “bloody rampages against Jews, native pagan peoples and then Protestants.”
Of course it did. Inquistion and Crusades. History tells the truth.
“Gee, you mean it wasn’t the “Protestant Church”?
Call it what you want...I dont care...you both slaughtered each other...each other claiming G-ds approval.
“False. The Holy Spirit is always efficacious. People aren’t.”
False. There is no HS dwelling within people to convict them, change their behavior. Again, if it were the case, world history would be much different. If you had any kind of a true heart conversion, ie new covenant, the world history would be much different. And yes, that was the premise. A new condition of the heart, brought about by the work of the man from Nazareth. It is a deeply flawed theological system of neo-paganism, hellenism and Judaism all wrapped up in one incoherent dogma.
You wrote:
“Hence the fallacy of the “indwelling” of the HS.”
There is no fallacy. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit does not overrule free will.
“If there were such an indwelling it would be impossible for us to sin with god dwelling in us.”
False. Again, God’s dwelling within us in no way overrules our free will. The Holy Spirit is The Comforter, not The Stifler.
“Of course it did.”
No, it did not.
“Inquistion and Crusades. History tells the truth.”
I have a PhD in history. My expertise is the Crusades and Inquisition. Most likely you’ve never read even a single book on either topic.
“Call it what you want...I dont care...you both slaughtered each other...each other claiming G-ds approval.”
People kill one another. That fact doesn’t make your erroneous contentions anymore right. What, Jews haven’t killed people? Gee, let’s ask the Canaanites about that. Oh, wait...
“False. There is no HS dwelling within people to convict them, change their behavior.”
False.
“Again, if it were the case, world history would be much different.”
Again, false. Men are still free to choose as they wish.
“If you had any kind of a true heart conversion, ie new covenant, the world history would be much different.”
“you”? So, now if I (just me?) had a “true heart conversion” all of world history would be different? First of all, I did have a conversion, and yes it was a “true heart conversion” for my heart is different than it once was. Second, you are in no position to judge whether I have had a “true heart conversion”. Third, well, you’re making yourself look like a presumptuous fool. Your choice.
“A new condition of the heart, brought about by the work of the man from Nazareth.”
Already happened, a number of years ago as a matter of fact.
“It is a deeply flawed theological system of neo-paganism, hellenism and Judaism all wrapped up in one incoherent dogma.”
Nope. It’s Christianity. Something you apparently don’t know much about if your posting is anything to go by.
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