Posted on 09/07/2012 7:31:05 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
If there are "many studies" that show both a higher rate of abuse AND show a higher rate of cover-ups, perhaps you could point me to a couple of them?
As I've said elsewhere, every study I've been shown of "Protestant" abuse included volunteers and laypersons. The John Jay Study did not address these groups when they looked at Catholic parishes. If we exclude volunteers and laypersons from the "Protestant" studies (thereby creating a "pastor vs priest" apple-to-apple comparison), we arrive at a roughly 1% abuse rate for all "Protestant" pastors, or (in other words) at least a four times greater likelihood that any given Catholic priest will be a sexual predator, as compared to any given "Protestant" pastor. And that's according to the numbers and studies that Catholics keep telling me about.Let me throw in one caveat to those comparisons. I found something interesting when I broke down the "Protestant" abuse cases by denomination / affiliation / theological leanings. The more free will / Arminian / synergistic the theology is, and the more independent the association is (as opposed to denominational affiliation), the higher the abuse statistic goes - and conversely, if you just look at the Reformed Protestant denominations, the number of "Protestant" abuse cases statistically drops off the chart by comparison. It's only the average of all "Protestant" pastors that is around 1%. Some independent churches have statistics that are far, far higher than the Catholic average of 4%.
-- Alex Murphy, April 2, 2008‘I have no idea what the actual proportion of pedophile protestant clergy is, but I would be amazed if it was more than a fraction of one percent.’
-- Philip Jenkins, author of Pedophiles and Priests, as quoted in the thread Letter about Catholics wrong about Protestants [re claim 10% of Protestant clergy are sex abusers]"...the scandal was never really about the 4% abusers in their ranks. The real scandal was that 66% of bishops covered for the 4%, negatively affecting 95% of the dioceses in the United States - actions which cost the Catholic Church over three billion dollars paid in settlements and awards to the victims."
-- Alex Murphy, September 29, 2009
Take comfort in knowing that even those who outwardly profess contempt and hostility towards the Church demonstrate their true feelings when they expect more of Catholics and the Catholic Church that they do of others. We know that those who abused and those who aided and abetted were acting counter to Church teaching. As every sin is also a sin against God and His Church, the entire body of the Church has been harmed by the actions of a few. While we pray for the actual victims, we have nothing to apologize for to those who giddily display schadenfreude with every new victim discovered. They too are in need of our prayers.
Peace be with you
The Catholic Church must do something, some form of penance, to atone for the sex abuse scandal its currently facing....See related thread: Pope begs forgiveness for church sex scandal
"Now, under attack from the world which talks to us of our sins, we can see that being able to do penance is a grace....we see how necessary it is to do penance and thus recognize what is wrong in our lives."
-- from the thread Pope Says Church Under Attack, Must Do Penance
Well now you do:
Forgotten Study: Abuse in School 100 Times Worse than by Priests
Has Media Ignored Sex Abuse In School?
but I don't believe it's relevent(sic) to the behavior of men of God.
What's relevant is the fact that the media, the public and many freepers - including yourself - choose to be ignorant of the epidemic of the sexual abuse of minors by employees in public education. Many even find it to be a lauging matter when the perp is a woman they find even mildly attractive. Behind every double standard lies an unconfessed single standard.
If the Church wants to play legalistic hardball like a secular amoral organization, fine, then it can expect to be treated accordingly by the media and the law.
I know they carefully screen adults working with children now, and have cleaned up the seminaries that had degenerated into pigsties after the 60's. But they still try to dodge the question with past abuse victims calling out for redress.
Oh and yes for the record, there has been documented female molestation and rape by priests. Most of the perps have been homosexual, but not all.
According to the Church's report, 19% of cases were abuse of a female.
The 78 year old priest your are quoting out of context publicly apologized and clarified what he said.
http://franciscanfriars.com/for-immediate-release-august-30-2102/
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
August 30, 2012
The Community of the Franciscan Friars of the Renewal sincerely apologizes for the comments made by Fr. Benedict Groeschel in an interview released yesterday by the National Catholic Register, online edition.In that interview, Fr. Benedict made comments that were inappropriate and untrue. A child is never responsible for abuse. Any abuser of a child is always responsible, especially a priest. Sexual abuse of a minor is a terrible crime and should always be treated as such. We are sorry for any pain his comments may have caused. Fr. Benedict has dedicated his life to helping others and these comments were completely out of character. He never intended to excuse abuse or implicate the victims. We hope that these unfortunate statements will not overshadow the great good Fr. Benedict has done in housing countless homeless people, feeding innumerable poor families, and bringing healing, peace and encouragement to so many.
Fr Benedict helped found our community 25 years ago with the hope of bringing the healing peace of Jesus Christ to our wounded world. Our desire has always been to lift up humanity and never to hurt. About seven years ago, Fr. Benedict was struck by a car and was in a coma for over a month. In recent months his health, memory and cognitive ability have been failing. He has been in and out of the hospital. Due to his declining health and inability to care for himself, Fr. Benedict had moved to a location where he could rest and be relieved of his responsibilities. Although these factors do not excuse his comments, they help us understand how such a compassionate man could have said something so wrong, so insensitive, and so out of character. Our prayers are with all those who have been hurt by his comments, especially victims of sexual abuse.
Personal Statement from Fr Benedict Groeschel:
I apologize for my comments. I did not intend to blame the victim. A priest (or anyone else) who abuses a minor is always wrong and is always responsible. My mind and my way of expressing myself are not as clear as they used to be. I have spent my life trying to help others the best that I could. I deeply regret any harm I have caused to anyone.
I read your first link. It refers to sexual abuse in the church and in schools over the last year or so. The comparison with the numbers in the Church’s report is not valid. I don’t think anybody doubts that there is much less sexual abuse in the Church in recent years and that when reported it is taken much more seriously than in the past.
That is, of course, at least partially due to the fact that the Church was starting from such a low level. It’s not difficult to be much better when you used to be really bad.
The Church’s own study reported 4.3% of priests accused of sexual abuse. Some of these were no doubt innocent, but then we can also assume some who were guilty were not accused.
100,000 priests and >6M teachers mean you would expect 60x as many teachers misbehaving with students. While I’m among the least happy people imaginable with the public school system, I don’t think there are anywhere near 1/4 million teachers misbehaving sexually with their underage students.
Or we could just go to the FR thread posted that same day: Forgotten Study: Abuse in School 100 Times Worse than by Priests. Quoting that article:
....according to Charol Shakeshaft, the researcher of a little-remembered 2004 study prepared for the U.S. Department of Education, "the physical sexual abuse of students in schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by priests"....The 156-page report titled Educator Sexual Misconduct: A Synthesis of Existing Literature, is roughly sixty pages of report, and 100 pages of Appendix/bibliography. The actual report does it's best to survey all of the available literature and studies on the subject, and more importantly it attempts to synthesize those various statistics into a homogeneous set of numbers.....According to the 2004 study “the most accurate data available at this time” indicates that “nearly 9.6 percent of students are targets of educator sexual misconduct sometime during their school career”....
....In 2004, shortly after the Shakeshaft study was released, Catholic League President William Donohue, who was unavailable for an interview for this story, asked, “Where is the media in all this?”
“Isn’t it news that the number of public school students who have been abused by a school employee is more than 100 times greater than the number of minors who have been abused by priests?” he asked.
Having read the entire study, something is amiss with Shakeshaft's purported statement that "the physical sexual abuse of students in schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by priests". First, the study does not place a number or ratio on the number of abuser-teachers. Second, the study does not focus on physical sexual abuse, but includes "sexually-related conversations, jokes, or questions directed at students" (page 1). Third, the Shakeshaft quote appears nowhere in the 156-page report itself. Fourth, the word "Catholic" is never used in the report except in the Appendix/bibliography sections, and most importantly the report never makes comparisons or comclusions using any Catholic Church numbers. If Charol Shakeshaft did indeed make the statement, she did so contrary to her own report.
For anyone who wishes to jump to the report's money quotes, IMO there are five. The first two are found in the report's opening:
....the author’s findings are in part broader than the congressional mandate and therefore could be perceived by some as insufficiently focused....The third money quote comes in the following statement on the statistics themselves:....It is important to note some of the Department’s reservations about the findings in the literature review. Specifically, the author focuses in large measure on a broad set of inappropriate behaviors designated as “sexual misconduct,” rather than “sexual abuse,” which is the term used in the statute. Specifically, section 5414(a)(3) of the ESEA requires the Secretary of Education to conduct “[a] study regarding the prevalence of sexual abuse in schools. . . .” (emphasis added) The distinction between “sexual misconduct” and “sexual abuse” is significant in legal and other terms. However, both are of concern to parents and the Department.
The author’s use of the two words interchangeably throughout the report is potentially confusing to the reader. Federal law gives separate and specific meaning to the words “sexual abuse,” and such words should not be confused with the broader, more general concept of “sexual misconduct.” Specifically, “sexual abuse” has been a defined term for over 17 years [18 U.S.C. § 2242]. It involves an act where one knowingly “causes another person to engage in a sexual act by threatening or placing that other person in fear. . .” or “engages in a sexual act with another person if that other person is—(A) incapable of appraising the nature of the conduct; or (B) physically incapable of declining participation in, or communicating unwillingness to engage in, that sexual act. . . .” Id. “Sexual abuse” carries a penalty of a fine or imprisonment for not more than 20 years, or both. Id.
....there are few empirical studies on educator sexual misconduct. As a result, there are insufficient studies to undertake even the simple synthesis method of counting the votes, let alone to merit the more formal and rigorous methods of synthesis such as meta-analysis. Thus, this synthesis is confined to a review of existing empirical literature and identification of issues which need initial or further study.The fourth and fifth money quotes are found in Section 3.2 and Section 4.0. 3.2 presents a synthesized chart showing the prevalence of sexual misconduct in public schools. It opens with:
Because of its carefully drawn sample and survey methodology, the AAUW report that nearly 9.6 percent of students are targets of educator sexual misconduct sometime during their school career presents the most accurate data available at this time....Then in Section 4.0, "Offender Characteristics", it states this:
Although we do not know how many or what percent of school employees are offenders, several studies describe the employees who have been identified (Table 6) using both surveys and first or third person descriptions of incidents of educator sexual misconduct. A number of the studies below, as well as newspaper and court reports, indicate that many are chronic predators; thus, the number of teachers who abuse is fewer than the number of students who are abused.
I read the whole report. See my post #33.
The Law of Moses did not directly address the sexual abuse of children.
However, Christ personally expressed his attitude towards those who mistreat children.
“It would be better to be thrown into the sea with a millstone hung around your neck than to cause one of these little ones to fall into sin.”
Might want to check out that word abomination(s) to see what is and is not 'lawful'. Those penalties still apply, it is flesh beings that decided they could do things better. And God controls the blessings and He is keeping the record book that counts for all of us. There are no exceptions of 'everybody is doing it'.
I always have to say this to give a glimmer from whence I speak. I married into a liberal Catholic family. So when the call outs come that liberal Catholics only attend church at high mass, do not know what they are talking about.
To have a person who is called Father as in GOD the Father, abuse a child in such a perverted manner is not even comparable to the regular perverts.
Penance and atonement, sure, but no apologies to "those who giddily display schadenfreude with every new victim discovered." Do you consider yourself in that group? Do you not consider yourself a sinner?
Unlike Calvinists, we Catholics do not consider evil acts a creation of God nor are any predestined to commit them. They are individual choices to reject God both by the perpetrators of these acts and those who seek to capitalize and derive a perverse pleasure from them.
"Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, `God, I thank thee that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week, I give tithes of all that I get. But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, `God, be merciful to me a sinner!'" - Luke 18:11
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