Posted on 08/27/2012 6:30:52 PM PDT by stpio
Sin is in our flesh, so it might be expressed as evil incarnate, but this should not be confused as an indwelling of Satan.
We are quite capable of sin, i.e. missing the mark of God’s Plan, by our own volition, completely independent of Satan after the fall in the Garden.
The good news is that by faith and through faith in Christ, our sin has been redeemed, propitiating His wrath, freeing His perfect righteousness and justice to sanctify us by His grace, regenerating our human spirit, so that we also might have eternal life in Him, and hope of a resurrected body as He was raised from the dead and is now seated at the right hand of the Father in Heaven.
I suspect Obama is simply a Satanist.
He isn’t devout enough to be a Muslim, but he is arrogant enough to play their religion to manipulate his power position.
I said WE incarnate evil, not the devil. WE choose to serve him rather than God. The flesh itself is not evil, but only weak by inheritance. Baptism plants the seed of “the old man,” but it up to us to cultivate that seed, and make use of the rain and sunshine from heaven, to become, at least the new man. Ultimately , of course, we must go into the ground and die to be reborn as we should be.
I would hope you review a good dictionary for the word: personshalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach1 a human being regarded as an individual
• used in legal or formal contexts to refer to an unspecified individual
• an individual's body
• a character in a play or story2 Grammar a category used in the classification of pronouns, possessive
determiners, and verb forms, according to whether they indicate the speaker
( first person), the addressee ( second person), or a third party ( third person).
See 224
See 244
Have you read:shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiachIsaiah 9:6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;Seek YHvH in His WORD !
And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name
will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father,
Prince of Peace.
Of course, it makes it clear that Jesus Christ is God. That there is just one God.
Hm?
Bowing and falling down are not necessarily acts of worship. That is true. The verses you cited are a mixture of many things which I will not address one-by-one. Some are worship toward God. Some are customary greetings or honors which in some cases can be because a person is God’s representative. But one thing is lacking in any of your examples. Never did God direct anyone to bow to a statue. And He specifically and repeatedly forbade this practice and calls it idolatry. Even when Daniel and his friends might have reasonably bowed in respect for the king of Babylon, they refused to bow to the king-like image he made. But apparently you are willing to break God’s commandments to keep the traditions of men.
See my following comment below also.
Interesting how you quote me out of context like liberal journalists like to quote conservatives. You end with “I don’t know.” But the context was plainly how it is not necessary to know HOW God does what He does. Do you know what Paul said to those who argued similarly against the resurrection in 1 Corinthians 15 when his opponents asked mockingly, “with what body do they come?” His reply was “thou fool... “ and then explained the body had a different nature when it is raised from the dead. When Abraham went out to seek a country, he went “not knowing”, but he also went in faith. So let’s talk about what we do know and are supposed to know and can know, and what we are to accept by faith.
“You, me, all Christians pray for a loved one to God, we intercede, asking God’s help for them. The same for the saints in Heaven. We ask the saints to intercede to God for us here. We are all one big family. So, you can speak to Mary in prayer. Doesn’t it make sense then, Mary in Heaven has powerful intercession with the Trinity.”
The saints in Heaven have died physically. The idea that they are presently aware of what we do or say is foreign to scripture. The scripture tells us they know nothing. Paul said to comfort other believers who have lost loved ones with the knowledge of their being re-united at the resurrection. If we could simply have a prayerful conversation with the deceased now, why did he fail to share this strange and wonderful doctrine?
And why is it so similar in nature to heathen practices of communicating (supposedly) with the dead through seances, or consulting with those who have familiar spirits, or the whole idea of ghosts of dead people haunting people and places. These spirits are not the spirits of dead people but are evil spirits which deceive the gullible.
You say it is the same to ask for intercession from the saints in heaven as it is to ask for living saints we know here. So you are claiming death makes no difference? When I ask for prayer I do so in person or by some non-magical means of communication like the phone or email. I do not do so telepathically or by saying some incantation over and over.
Death makes a difference. Death means the difference between whether a relationship is adultery or marriage (according to Romans 7). Having sexual relations with your spouse is normal in marriage but criminal if he or she is dead. (It is the abuse of a corpse under our laws and warrants a death penalty under God’s laws.) Yes, death does make a difference. We are not only not to attempt to communicate with the dead, we are not to seek after those who do. That is what the scriptures command. But you make the word of God without effect in order to keep your vain and abominable traditions which are not only not commanded by God but are actually forbidden in His word.
We are commanded to love God and love our neighbor. Yet God loves the whole world. Who did Jesus teach is our neighbor? It is whoever God brings into our path. God is big enough and powerful enough to love the whole world and even to provide salvation for the whole world. We, as individuals, are not capable of loving everyone. We cannot know everyone. we cannot even learn the names of everyone. How can we love everyone? Love is more than just a feeling. It involves action to benefit someone. It is enough to seek to fulfill God’s command to love our neighbor.
Likewise, there are only so many people you, I or anyone can pray for or intercede for. Only God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are able to continually intercede for us. Mary, nor any other deceased saint, has no such supernatural abilities. Nowhere does scripture even hint at asking the dead to intercede for us. There would be no difference in practice from this and the forbidden heathen practices of communicating with the dead.
No, Mary does not have any special intercessory power. Even when she was alive we never read of the apostles making a special request for her to say a prayer to get them out of a tough jam. And they had more than a few. Jesus said whoever hears the word of God and keeps it is His mother. He makes it very clear that the special relationship He had with Mary, we can have also.
“God gives and respects everyone’s free will, He would not take it away from Mary. She could of said no. The excuse, He would go to another woman if Mary said no is a weak excuse. Nor could God be contained in a person of sin. Mary is an exception of God, she was conceived without original sin and you do accept other exceptions in the Bible.”
It is not only not a weak excuse, it is not even an excuse. It is a simple fact. God does what He pleases, and all of scriptures agrees. Are you not aware that God sees everything and even knows our hearts? Do you know that we can deceive others and ourselves but not God? He knew what Mary would answer before He told her what what would happen to her. Do you think she was the only willing woman in the world? The term “desire of women” in the prophets has to do with the desire to complete a pregnancy by giving birth but also has the added significance that many Jewish women of faith hoped to be the one chosen to be the mother of the Messiah. So, again, the incarnation was not dependent on Mary. God can accomplish whatever He pleases with out us, but He apparently delights in allowing us to participate in what He does, and so He chooses the willing.
Are you not aware that it is by the supernatural work of the Holy Spirit that we can become partakers of Christ’s body? This can only happen because of God the Father and God the Son Who come and “take Our abode in” believers through the gift of the indwelling Holy Spirit. The incarnation was accomplished by God living in Mary. Our salvation requires God to live in us. It is not our holiness that makes this possible. It is the holiness of God and His redemptive power through the shed blood of Christ which consecrates the bodies of believers to God so that God can indeed indwell people of faith. Mary was made sinless by the blood of Christ not vice versa. So all of His earthly life she called Him “Jesus”, meaning Savior. He was her Savior.
“Greater in the New Covenant, Mary asks Our Lord’s intercession at the wedding at Cana, like Solomon, Jesus does not refuse her.”
Contrarily, it was supremely important for Jesus to make clear to His mother, those present at the wedding, and all of us who would read of this account, that it was He Who was in charge here and not Mary. So, He said to her, “you must not tell me what to do.” Then she told the servants wisely, WHATEVER HE SAYS TO DO, DO IT. He was in charge then. He is in charge now.
PERSON, n. per'sn. [L. persona; said to be compounded of per, through or by, and sonus, sound; a Latin word signifying primarily a mask used by actors on the state.]
1. An individual human being consisting of body and soul. We apply the word to living beings only, possessed of a rational nature; the body when dead is not called a person. It is applied alike to a man, woman or child.
A person is a thinking intelligent being.
2. A man, woman or child, considered as opposed to things, or distinct from them.
A zeal for persons is far more easy to be perverted, than a zeal for things.
3. A human being, considered with respect to the living body or corporeal existence only. The form of her person is elegant.
You'll find her person difficult to gain.
The rebels maintained the fight for a small time, and for their persons showed no want of courage.
4. A human being, indefinitely; one; a man. Let a person's attainments be never so great, he should remember he is frail and imperfect.
5. A human being represented in dialogue, fiction, or on the state; character. A player appears in the person of king Lear.
These tables, Cicero pronounced under the person of Crassus, were of more use and authority than all the books of the philosophers.
6. Character of office.
How different is the same man from himself, as he sustains the person of a magistrate and that of a friend.
7. In grammar, the nominative to a verb; the agent that performs or the patient that suffers any thing affirmed by a verb; as, I write; he is smitten; she is beloved; the rain descends in torrents. I, thou or you, he, she or it, are called the first, second and third persons. Hence we apply the word person to the termination or modified form of the verb used in connection with the persons; as the first or the third person of the verb; the verb is in the second person.
8. In law, an artificial person, is a corporation or body politic.
In person, by one's self; with bodily presence; not be representative.
The king in person visits all around.
* Words are by sound; Jesus is the Word, and creation is described as being spoken into existence (by word).
And His NAME is Eternal Father.
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
“Of course, it makes it clear that Jesus Christ is God. That there is just one God.
And His NAME is Eternal Father...
Which is the opposite of your argument..
A plain reading of Isaiah 9:6
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
states that Yah'shua is the Eternal Father. Isaiah 9:6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;
And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name
will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father,
Prince of Peace.
“A plain reading of Isaiah 9:6
states that Yah’shua is the Eternal Father.”
A plain reading would assume they are one God. They are. They are separate persons in the Godhead. They are not the same person.
Thanks for your reply, I’ll try to reply to a few things
you’ve said. I don’t want to argue, I want a lot more, for
you to understand the faith better and soon to say “yes” to
the things you object to about the faith. God is going to show the entire world soon, Roman Catholicism is the one and only true faith. He wants you to become Roman Catholic.
unlearner:
“The saints in Heaven have died physically. The idea that they are presently aware of what we do or say is foreign to scripture. The scripture tells us THEY KNOW NOTHING.
~ ~ ~
The in-caps, an example of a heresy, the error of private
interpretation of Scripture, believing you can decide what Scripture means. Sorry but no! God gave the Church the authority to interpret Scripture.
The only way the saints in Heaven are aware of what’s going on down here is because of God. Everything is by the power of God. The saints can hear, they know of our prayer requests for their intercession to God because God desires it. So many prayers to the saints are for spiritual intentions besides our temporal requests. God’s wish is,
the saints who have made it to Heaven help us get to
Heaven.
The verse in Ecclesiastes you are referring to also means
you can’t attain anymore merit for Heaven once you die.
Read the footnote on the verse. http://www.drbo.org/
Ecclesiastes 9:5
For the living know that they shall die, but the dead KNOW NOTHING MORE, neither have they a reward any more: for the memory of them is forgotten.
[5] Know nothing more: Viz., as to the transactions of this world, in which they have now no part, UNLESS it be REVEALED to them; neither have they any knowledge or power now of OF DOING ANYTHING to secure their eternal state, (if they have not taken care of it in their lifetime:) nor can they now procure themselves any good, as the living always may do, by the grace of God.
“The saints in Heaven have died physically. The idea that they are presently aware of what we do or say is foreign to scripture...
If we could simply have a prayerful conversation with the deceased now, why did he fail to share this strange and wonderful doctrine?”
~ ~ ~
Paul speaks often about prayers of intercession, logically
include the holy prayers of the saints in Heaven to God.
Here is a Gospel verse showing the intercession of the saints in Heaven given to the beloved Apostle, John. The prayers of the faithful on earth include our prayer requests to the saints for God. The “Ancients” who are saints take these prayers to God, which itself is an act of intercession.
Revelation 5:8
And when he had opened the book, the four living creatures, and the FOUR AND TWENTY ANCIENTS fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the PRAYERS OF THE SAINTS:
[8] The prayers of saints: Here we see that the saints in heaven offer up to Christ the prayers of the faithful upon earth. http://www.drbo.org/
“No, Mary does not have any special intercessory power. Even when she was alive we never read of the apostles making a special request for her to say a prayer to get them out of a tough jam.”
~ ~ ~
When God shows you personally, remember, “oh yes, the Catholics were trying to show me.”
Mary is spoken of in Genesis 3:15 and in Revelation chapter 12. She is the “woman.” The reason Our Lord kept referring to his mother as “woman.” In our time and soon during the Great Tribulation, you’ll see she is important to the end times, it’s God’s wish. And evidence, in the last 100 years, Mary has appeared more than at any other time in Christian history.
Our Lord’s mother knew the Gospel writers personally. In
her humility, Mary asked that their writings be about her
Son and revelation about her would come later. They honored
her request even though Mary was there at all the major events of the Gospel, less two I can think of...
Posting ~ from an approved private revelation. Our Lord’s mother spoke to Venerable Mary of Agreda (1602-1665) about her life. From the Mystical City of God, Book 8, Chapter 3 ~ The Gospels:
“Within a few days saint Matthew set about writing the first Gospel. While praying in a retired room of the Cenacle and asking to be enlightened for the inception of his history, the most blessed Mary appeared seated on a throne of great majesty and splendor, the doors of the room still remaining closed. The great Lady told him to arise, which he did, asking for her benediction. Then She spoke to him and said: “Matthew, my servant, the Almighty sends me with his blessing, in that with it thou begin the writing of the Gospel thou hast the good fortune to be entrusted with, thou shalt have the assistance of the Holy Ghost and I shall beg it for thee with all my heart. BUT CONCERNING MYSELF it is not proper, that thou write anything except what is absolutely necessary for manifesting the Incarnation and other mysteries of the Word made man, for establishing his faith in the world as the foundation of his Church. This faith being established, the Almighty will find other persons, who, when the times arrive in which it shall become necessary, shall reveal to the faithful the mysteries and blessings wrought by his powerful arm in me.”...
“Mary is spoken of in Genesis 3:15 and in Revelation chapter 12. She is the ‘woman.’ The reason Our Lord kept referring to his mother as ‘woman.’”
The woman in Revelation 12 is Israel. Due to persecution by Satan during the second half of Daniel’s seventieth week, those Jews who escape the Antichrist purge against Jews and Christians will flee the land of Israel as the Lord prophesied. The sun, moon and stars are symbols which allude to Israel and are used repeatedly in scriptures including Joseph’s dream which foretold how Israel (sun, moon and stars) would bow to Christ.
God spoke in Genesis 3 to Adam, Eve and the serpent. While there is an allegorical and symbolic nature to how this story is told, the event actually happened historically. When God spoke to them it was specifically in response to the wrongdoing which had just occurred. He pronounced judgment with a promise. All of humanity that ever existed and what exists today came from the “loins” of the man and woman here. So, what God said to them is relevant to us, and it is relevant to them. When God referred to “the woman” there was only one woman, Eve. He spoke of ongoing and future events, but He did not foretell of the woman, Mary, who would give birth to the promised seed. Christ is the seed of Eve as much as He is the seed of Mary. If He had intended to communicate of Mary he would have described her as “a woman” because she was not there and did not exist yet.
“Our Lord’s mother knew the Gospel writers personally. In
her humility, Mary asked that their writings be about her
Son and revelation about her would come later.”
It was God Who directed the writers of scripture what to write, not Mary. Mary did have the humility to not want to exalt herself. Christians today should respect that and not exalt her above measure just as she would desire. In Luke 7:28, Jesus said of all who were born of women up until the arrival of the kingdom of heaven (which came after John), none were greater than John the Baptist. Was Mary born of a woman? Yes, she was. Did she come before or after John? Before. The law and prophets were until John. After that the kingdom of heaven was preached. John the baptist was greater than Mary. His role in the first coming of Christ was greater than even her role was. Yet this is what John said about Jesus: “He must increase and I must decrease.” We should not exalt Mary any more than we exalt John. Rather than exalting them, we are to exalt the Savior, which is what they, according to the will of God, would desire.
God condemned Israel through His prophet Jeremiah for sacrificing to the so-called “queen of heaven” referenced four times in Jeremiah 7:18; and 44:17-19. Just like Israel who were, you will recall, God’s chosen people, turned to idolatry; so today Christianity is full of idol worshipers. It makes no difference if Rome sanctions this idolatry any more than the priests and elders and Levites and “prophets” of Israel could disregard the command of God and do this without repercussion.
“the Almighty will find other persons, who, when the times arrive in which it shall become necessary, shall reveal to the faithful the mysteries and blessings wrought by his powerful arm in me.”
So which is it? Did the apostles teach these practices of making statues of Mary and bowing to them and burning incense to them and invoking Mary in heaven for aid and addressing her as “mother of God” and “queen of heaven” or did these supposed revelations come later like this supposed vision claims?
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