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To: boatbums
"Like I have been saying all along, the "presence" of Jesus in the Eucharist is a matter of perception for the person participating in the ordinance."

That is patently ridiculous. Was the divinity of Jesus during His ministry on Earth merely a matter of perception since the elements of His fully human body were still present?

"I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world."

The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, "How can this man give us (his) flesh to eat?"

Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.

Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day.

For my flesh is real food, and my blood is real drink.

Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him. - John 6:51-58

Peace be with you

150 posted on 08/20/2012 4:27:03 PM PDT by Natural Law (Jesus did not leave us a Bible, He left us a Church.)
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To: Natural Law
That is patently ridiculous. Was the divinity of Jesus during His ministry on Earth merely a matter of perception since the elements of His fully human body were still present?

No, it isn't ridiculous. What IS ridiculous is all the word play and semantic games that must take place to try to get to the place where Catholics have to believe in the "real presence", properly confected by the "right" guy in the "right" garments saying the "right" words in order to really believe they are eating their savior and have a chance at salvation. I honestly think it took awhile for all the thinking heads to hash it out over the centuries, taking a little bit here a little bit there, to come up with the idea that what you can't physically see, really physically IS there. That is a far cry from believing that Jesus was really and truly God incarnated, Almighty God became a man, took on human flesh and blood and endured the horrendous agony and humiliation of the cross so that we can be redeemed by His shed blood.

I wish Catholic apologists would stop and think about what they are really getting across when they toe the "party" line and exclude the other believing Christians of the world from the fellowship of the Body of Christ. We are not saved by how we "see" the elements of the Lord's Supper observance but by how we see Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith.

161 posted on 08/20/2012 8:22:12 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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