Posted on 08/18/2012 9:13:06 PM PDT by Salvation
The “All;” I am addressing are those who say no to the RCC.
I keep sharing current private revelation because divine
events are close. The Protestant messages are saying the same but not as explicit as the Catholic because of our pride.
It’s interesting, a current Protestant messenger, Glynda Lomax, her messages are being posted on Catholic sites. I wish non-Catholic Christians would be as open.
Whhhoooa. True repentance and confession of your sins to
God for the life of your soul~! The reason Our Lord established the Sacrament of Confession (John 20:23).
Right now, non-Catholic Christians, examine your life, from the heart, with true contrition repent and confess your serious (mortal) sins to God.
OSAS and some non-Catholic’s misunderstanding of redemption, believing the “Jesus did it All on the Cross” atonement business...are not true. Our Lord reminds us here He is perfectly just. Do you see, reparation is made with “consequences” here on earth and if not completed (there is more, God forgives us when we confess our sins, yes), if not in this life, our reparation, our purgation is completed in Purgatory.
Read Glynda’s latest...
Tuesday, August 21, 2012
All Sin Comes With A Price
My Word is truth, though many refuse the truths it offers them. My Holy Word contains the power to set men free from their sins, the power to move any mountain, to clear any path.
My people often neglect to study My Word and learn of its truths and in times soon coming, this shall lead to their sudden destruction, for no man can stand before My Judgments.
Many are deceived into thinking sin no longer counts, that it no longer matters to Me, but it has always mattered. My Son died for sin because it mattered. He died to set men free from it, not to leave them free to do it more.
ALL sin comes with a price. There is no sin that does not bring a consequence into your life, though at first you may not see it. As the cup of your sins becomes full, that consequence must be meted out, for I am a Holy and Righteous Judge and I will have a holy and spotless bride for My Son.
For those who repent, the consequences will be less. For those who do not even try to stop sinning, they shall be very grave. But be not deceived, whatsoever a man sows, he shall also reap.
Sin is grievous in My eyes and should not be found among those sworn to serve Me. You are coming into a fierce and evil time and you cannot stand before your enemies without My power and My truth. Those who live sinful lives will not walk in My power and will not be able to stand.
If you turn now from your sins, you will have help in that time. If you do not turn from them, grave consequences await you, My children, which you shall not enjoy. For some of you, I shall expose your sins to others. Some of you shall reap through diseases, financial lack and loss of relationships.
Your choices now determine the ease of your path later. In My great mercy, I have warned you that you may turn from the destructive path in time, but you must want to turn from it.
Choose you this day whom you will serve.
Each time temptation calls, you are choosing. Be wise, My children, be vigilant. For the enemy of your souls seeks to devour you and all you have.
Will you let him?
John 17:17: Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
http://www.wingsofprophecy.blogspot.com/
I wish you wouldn’t leave, it’s less mean spirited when you
post, you have a way...
It is the difference between our understanding, I thought
and put in caps Catholic things Daniel stated while he
defended Sola Fide. The heresy “Faith Alone” is a tough one to eliminate.
I stay because the longer we talk, the more non-Catholics will recall when the Warning happens. The Warning could happen next year. I shared this writing on Sola Fide last week. Martin Luther’s “man is completely depraved” heresy doesn’t help either.
~ ~ ~
http://www.catholicnick.blogspot.com/
an excerpt:
Monday, August 6, 2012
The second most important passage in Protestantism (Romans 4:5)
Following closely behind 2nd Timothy 3:16-17 (which I address here), the second most important passage of Scripture for Protestants is Romans 4:5, especially the part that says God “justifies the ungodly”. In the Protestant mind, Paul’s chief concern in life is how a holy God is able to declare an unrighteous person to be righteous, without violating His justice. This mindset first originated with Luther, who struggled to explain and understand how he, being a rotten sinner, could stand before an all-holy God and yet be found acceptable. The “solution” to this dilemma is what Luther and Protestants think is the heart of the Gospel: that God formulated an ingenious legal scheme, through Jesus Christ, which made it possible for God to declare the unrighteous person to be righteous and thus justify them, all without violating his holiness, justice, and integrity. This mentality has taken over the minds of most Protestants throughout history, and is perpetuated through the mistaken appeal to Romans 4:5.
Protestants begin by (rightly) recognizing that it is an abomination to declare someone righteous who is in fact unrighteous. For a secular judge to do such a thing is a serious injustice, and there’s no way God could do such an unjust thing, either. And yet, Romans 4:5 says God does the very thing He shouldn’t be doing, God “justifies the ungodly”. Looking at this conundrum, Protestants get to work trying to find an explanation for how God could do such a thing and not violate his Holiness. The “solution” they come up with (thinking this is in fact Paul’s reasoning as well) is that God isn’t declaring the unrighteous to be righteous out of thin air, but rather God is providing a basis to do so through the work of Jesus (citing Romans 3:21-26). They believe the sinners guilt gets imputed to Christ’s account and Christ’s perfect righteousness gets imputed to the sinner’s account, so God can now look at the sinner’s “criminal record” and see that not only has the punishment they deserve been satisfied, but the requirements of living a perfectly righteous life has been satisfied as well. Thus, God isn’t violating His holiness at all when he declares the unrighteous to be righteous, in fact He’s upholding His perfect standards. This is what Protestants think is “the Gospel”.
This is where the faith versus works dichotomy then gets introduced: Protestants think (quite reasonably) that since we are unrighteous, all of our works are tainted by sin, and thus can have no place at all in justification. Instead, it can and must be all about Christ’s work imputed to our account. This means that anyone at all attempting to introduce works into the salvation ‘equation’ is not only committing a serious abomination (by trying to get God to accept our imperfect works as righteousness), this person is also seriously deluded by not recognizing they are a miserable sinner with nothing but naked guilt standing before God’s tribunal. This is why Protestants begin all their talks on the “Gospel” with an appeal to truly recognize you’re a broken and miserable sinner who must look elsewhere, namely Christ alone, for your salvation...
It's easy, go back to your post that I responded to. It's #179. You said:
In the church in which I was raised, there was a big disconnect between many elements of the Old Testament and the New. And as I recall, it was the same in other Protestant churches I attended with friends and relatives. The concept of the Lord's Supper as sacrifice wasn't part of our thinking. And one reason Catholicism was poorly understood was that we didn't understand the Jewish roots of Catholic worship. This is one reason I so appreciate that there is an OT & NT reading and psalm at every Mass. Reading the OT as a type of the NT wasn't the lens with which we read our Bibles as Protestants. So it's no wonder we talk past each other. I still get amazed at Mass sometimes when I hear something from the OT that fits perfectly with the NT but I never put the link together before despite being familiar with both passages.
Because EVERY Protestant church that I have attended certainly honored the Old Testament, related the connection and fulfillment in the New Testament and preached the WHOLE council of God. I went to a Bible college and EVERY book of the Bible was studied, every word, sentence, paragraph and the connection to what was done in the life of Jesus Christ and the early church. How you described your experience and how Catholics seem to like to use to denigrate the Protestant churches as ignorant and ill-informed, I guess it goes along with that air of superiority that gets voiced here almost without fail.
As far as giving you a "gotcha" question, I wasn't. I have asked it of several professed ex-Protestants. I cannot imagine returning to a religion that teaches no one can KNOW they have everlasting life - in fact many Catholics here call such an assurance a "sin of presumption" or a "heresy". You say that you know you are saved by Christ's sacrifice for you, and I am, frankly, glad to hear it. How do you deal with those that insist you can't? How do you answer those who declare that we will only know we are saved when we face the judgment at the end of time and then only if we have done enough good works "in cooperation with God's grace" and don't have any "mortal sins" on our souls?
I also rest confidently in God's wondrous mercy and grace and I have the Word of God that assures me that I HAVE, right now, everlasting life through faith alone in Christ alone to the glory of God alone. I know that my salvation is NOT based on what I do for God but what He has done for me.
"“Sola fide” does not mean an inert faith is salvific, but that it is precisely the faith that is behind works that is counted for righteousness, (Rm. 5:5,10,11), “God “purifying their heart by faith,” (Acts 15:9) which manifest confirming confession in turn justifies the person as having true faith. (Rm. 10:9,10)
Faith is belief in what someone says on grounds of trust in that person and not on direct evidence that would support the claim. In order to make decisions regarding faith, one must have and hold prior valued concepts and other values, which the person uses as reference for motivational and other decision making purposes. Those valued references and motivations must be used to drive works and must come prior to ones decision to have faith. No one can choose to believe something if they have no priors. Their values must come first and chosen of their own free will.
God is not a puppeteer. Faith is not some gift from God that consists of some magical mind infusion. Faith is a decision which is a work and is based on works and the gifts given in Gen 1:26-27 and from His own teachings done in person. Jesus is the God of the OT. The God of the OT taught who He was in Person. Jesus equates 2 Persons of the Trinity, indicating that the concepts and values presented by Jesus are the Father's in John 6:44, "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day."
The draw is not some mysterious and unfathomable mind infusion, it is the finding by one's own analysis and decisions, based on one's prior values that the concepts and values presented by Jesus are something to be incorporated in one's own mind as fundamental values. That does not mean one can not have a change of heart; one can. A change of heart indicates that one has decided, still based on priors, that a new order, or set of values should be incorporated into one's motivations and references.
What God is saying in John 6:44 is that those concepts and values are what He holds and values and those that have faith recognize that. They can only choose to believe if they themselves have chosen to build a similar value system, however different it might be. The key point to note is that, their hearts were in it. That is why they would never speak against the Holy Spirit, but might say something against bleeding bread, grace through nibbling on toes and fingers and other nonsense. If those that believe in later are saved, so are those w/o faith such as, but not limited to agnostics, Jews, stone age folks, and even atheists per Matt 12:32. God said, Matthew 12:7, "If you had known what these words mean, ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the innocent." Sola Fide has the above condemned, because the did not believe something someone told them and they themselves did not know that the God they purport to believe in has rendered them innocent already. Not by magic, but through forgiveness.
Dear bb and PP (I’m aware that you have left the thread, PP, but I hope you get this, anyway):
boatbums: “I went to a Bible college——”
I didn’t even go college. We were too poor. I had received a scholarship when I graduated from high school, but still had to pay train fare (to the designated liberal arts college of my scholarship) to get there and to buy books and cover whatever the tuition didn’t pay for. I tried working two jobs for nine months to cover those expenses, but then realized that I couldn’t keep that up and even if I could, it would take me 8 years instead of 4 to get my degree.
So I had to go to work.
And I decided to become Catholic and then I met my husband.
Instead of studying “EVERY book of the Bible”, I married a great man. We had 6 children and I spent the rest of my life being the Martha of the Bible....pots and pans and diapers and home work and Little League games and presiding over driving lessons and dating rules.
Our family prayed together.
But I also chose to be the “Mary” of the Bible as well.
For most of my married life I was able to attend Mass daily.(my “youngest” is now 46)
Mass was my Bible school. Year after year I sat in the pew and heard the Mass reading of the day (which one can now easily see as Salvation posts it each day on this forum).
The “study” of those Scripture readings that I received were the homilies given by the priest offering the daily Mass.
BTW, in all those years I NEVER heard a homily in which Protestant churches were belittled or denigrated. Instead we were being challenged to be better Catholics.
The homilies were always about the practical application of the Scriptures into our daily lives.
And I was able to first hear and then receive-—those of us there “recognized Him in the breaking of the bread.” (Luke) I was able to both receive the Lord and at the same time offer myself to Him. His holy words to me (and those people there with me) were not studied as much as breathed in, ingested, implanted in my soul. I can’t say that I know “chapter and verse”——but I have intimate knowledge of God’s Scripture that has come to me day after day after day at Mass, all these years.
Because the doors to my parish church were always open, I was able to go there at any time of the day to pray, as many people did-—and still do.
Our children grew up as babies in our arms getting nothing more out of Mass than looking up at the beautiful stained glass windows depicting some signal moment in Jesus’ life among us. They had a visual catechesis even before they could read or write. The “smells and bells”, so often made fun of, were the affective domain of their learning process before the beginning of their cognitive domain development.
I learned Scripture because it was being imprinted upon my heart and to this day, the happenings of my daily life and events will bring to my mind and to my lips, one beautiful passage after the other.
boatbums:”How you described your experience and how Catholics seem to like to use to denigrate the Protestant churches as ignorant and ill-formed. I guess it goes along with that air of superiority that gets voiced here almost without fail.”
bb, your homepage has a quite a bit to say about your “experiences” in leaving the Catholic church. Reading it, I can get the impression that you may certainly think Catholics are “ill-informed”-—and even malformed.
Reading the posts on this forum, I have seen that an “air of superiority” can show up on both “sides.”
Experiences mean something. They are often true touchstones in our lives. On this forum they may be perceived as “anecdotal”, but that doesn’t change the reality of experience.
When I was a teenager, I lived just a block away from a cathedral in the city where I lived at the time. I knew it was always open, so I used to love to stop in there whenever I felt a need to find quiet and to think. I always wondered why I felt such peace there, and would “linger for a while”.
Only later, in my catechumen class did I know about the Real Presence.
boatbums: “I also rest confidently in God’s wondrous mercy and grace”......
So do I. And I express it vocally and openly in every Mass I attend.
boatbums: “I know that my salvation is NOT based on what I do for God but what He has done for me.”
I also believe that.
I also believe that Christ will come to get his Bride the Church. And those in the bridal procession on their way to the house of the Groom are admonished to keep their lamps filled with oil. They are doing something and going somewhere.
St. Paul tells us he is on a race to the finish line. He is doing something and going somewhere.
We are in a heavenly relationship where we not only fully receive but Our Lord Jesus wants us also to fully give—whatever it is that we have to give in the life He sustains in us day-by-day.
We can even give ourselves to Him in our illness, as I watched my husband do in the long months of hospice.
This is the reciprocal love that we are called to—the wedded love of bride and groom— and He reminded us in parable that we must not be off-duty and found not “working” when He comes as Master and King.
I feel a certain regret with many things that are posted here which so often seem accusative, scolding, and as my Alabama-bred granddaughter says “off-putting”.
“Some of us have not much time to love. Remember once more: that this is a matter of life or death. I cannot help speaking urgently...for myself, for yourselves. It is better not to live than not to love. Love is like light....take a beam of light and pass it through a crystal prism...the prism is broken up into component colors. St. Paul passes this thing—love—though the magnificent prism of his inspired intellect and it comes out..broken into its elements.
Patience...love suffereth long
Kindness...and is kind
Humility..love is not puffed up
Courtesy...does not behave itself unseemly
Good temper...is not provoked”
From my Protestant mother’s little book: Henry Drummond’s “The Greatest Thing in the World”
We who call ourselves by the name Christian are on a great journey, a great bridal procession to the house of the Groom:—whether we have just gotten up from our fall on the road to Damascus, or are crying out “To whom shall I go?”_or “Lord, that I may see”...or are jumping in the water with Peter crying out “It is the Lord!”
I think the thing that bothers me the most about some of the responses on this thread is that for those of us who have experienced the overwhelming joy associated with the Real Presence the suggestion that we did not witness what we witnessed and did not experience what we experienced is beyond preposterous. We are also told that we as Catholics do and cannot think if we accept Church teachings on this. I can't see this as anything other than a finessed way of calling us liars and idiots.
“If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first." - John 15:18
Peace be with you
Careful, you're bringing out your desperation "sticks" again. I'll post this again for probably the hundredth time now - even your own Catholic apologists are warning about making such a ridiculous claim, it's number 1:
Unsound Sticks, or, Arguments Catholics Shouldn't Use:
This reference lists 8,973 denominations under the heading "Protestant," and 22,146 more under the heading "Independent." Some, but not all, of the "independent" denominations may justly be described as Protestant. Still, these numbers may be inflated similarly to the numbers for Catholics and Orthodox. Suffice it to say that there are thousands of Protestant denominations.
Moreover, even if we could arrive at an accurate tally for Protestant denominations (20,000?), we still could not blame the whole of that number on Sola Scriptura. Some of these churches share substantial unity in faith, even if they are juridically independent (perhaps due to geography). And much of the disunity of faith within Protestantism, at least in the developed world, stems from efforts to subordinate the authority of Scripture (e.g., to various sexual perversions). In reality, if every Protestant denomination were serious and consistent in affirming and applying the rule of Sola Scriptura, the spectrum of Protestant belief would be significantly narrower. It bears emphasizing: the only thing for which we can directly blame Sola Scriptura is the extent to which it fails to provide unity in true faith and morals to those who sincerely adhere to it, e.g., "orthodox" Lutherans, Presbyterians, Baptists, Anglicans, Methodists, Pentecostals, Campbellites, etc.
Lest you forget, the Reformation doctrines were more catholic/orthodox than the Roman Catholic ones had become. Plus, we already know that "unity" within the Roman Catholic Church is a facade. The unity of faith has ALWAYS been about the central tenets of the Christian faith - of which the Apostles' Creed is a good summary. These days, there are numerous denominations that, though they call themselves Christian (i.e.; Mormons and JWs), do NOT hold to these main tenets and there are also numerous "Catholic" ones that don't hold to them either. When I speak about the "Protestant" Biblical teachings, I mean those very same tenets which the Reformers as well as the early centuries of the Christian faith community held and ALL of them can be found in Holy Scripture. These are what set apart true churches of Christ and the universal Body of Christ of which are many members. God knows His own and His own hear HIS voice.
I don't know who's Home Page you read, but mine says NOTHING about my experiences leaving the Catholic Church nor is there anything on it that says a word about Catholics and their knowledge. Show me where I said any of that on my homepage.
Thank you for your other comments, anyway. I went to Bible College and paid my OWN way through taking 5 1/2 years to get my four year degree - some years working three jobs. I knew that it was God calling me to do this and I have never regretted a day. One of the main reasons why I went was because I didn't want to have to rely on pastors or priests to tell me what the Bible said, I wanted to learn it for myself. It gave me a sure foundation in my faith and for that I am eternally grateful.
My motivation has been to take what God taught me through His word and help others to learn it as well. All these years later, I am STILL learning and it never gets mundane (well, except all the "begats", maybe, but even some of them are informative). We will all be at a stage in our lives as you find yourself in now - if we're blessed to live that long, and I know what a tremendous comfort it is to know what and who you know.
And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. (I John 5:20)
Blessings to you, ROE.
I most certainly owe you an apology.
I failed to do my homework.
Yes, indeed, I am growing old.
I had your homepage confused with the homepage of someone else....who I shall not name here.
At least, I didn’t err altogether...in that I am aware of your story about leaving the Catholic church.
I am forever grateful that I am a Catholic...still able to go to daily Mass. I am blessed.
God is love.
May He bless us all.
A deflection, wrapped in a dubious appeal to authority, is not a sign of my desperation, but yours. Do you seriously think anyone believes you frequent and read the entire content of sites like Pugio Fidei? Would you rather I had said 20,000 +/- 15,000, or the more precise 8,973 number given in the Pugio Fidei site from 11 years, and several generations of Protestantism ago?
Whether the correct number is 33,000 or 33, there is no singular Protestant teaching as you implied. Not even Sola Scriptura is universally accepted throughout the theological hash that calls itself Protestant. And before you point to the harmony of any collection of so-called Reformers remember that the Fathers of the Reformation spent a good deal of their time energies condemning, trying and executing each other in competition for the power, prestige and wealth left in the wake of the local destruction of the Church.
I am not going to discuss and will not debate the cobbled together collection of cut and pasted references you post in lieu of the particular nomenclature of your heresy dejour. I am not impressed by a “bible college” education either. Many of the Bible college and Protestant seminary graduates I know were not only badly educated but the agenda and curricula of their schools have actually left them maleducated. I will say this; I know quite a number who have converted to Catholicism. What they universally share is a gratitude and love of the denomination that could take them only so far. That is considerably different that the morbid hatred of the Church that ex-Catholics spew on these threads as though hatred of the Catholic Church is a Christian virtue and fruit of their newly found self-declared Salvation.
Peace be with you
>>”Daniel, no one taught “Faith Alone” until Martin Luther”<<
That, along with well as your idea that sola fide sanctions a kind of faith as being salvific though it does not produce works, given opportunity, is another regretful display of your ignorance. Which is convenient in desiring to defend Rome and which will remain if you continue to refuse to be instructed by that which opposes you.
http://turretinfan.blogspot.com/2011/07/justification-by-faith-alone.html
>> “It’s not “Faith Alone.” You’re becoming Roman Catholic<<”
Then so was Luther. Imagining that affirming works means one is growing closer to Rome (and which effects less commitment) is consistent with your imaginative prophecies. Once again, you have marginalized yourself as one not worthy of dialog. Bye.
If you understand the Catholic concept of grace as God sharing his very self, that he shares his very own LIFE with us, then yes, we are given Life in the Eucharist.
No, this would be valid if Eucharistic theology was Scriptural, which it is not, but the text says “no life in you,” not simply additional grace, and many RCs use it as supporting the necessity of the Eucharist as if for salvation. In contrast, John teaches that those who do not yet believe the gospel, and or deny that Christ is I AM, are dead in their sins, and shall die in their sins. , but are made alive by faith in Him. (Jn. 3:36; 8:24; Acts 15:8,9; Eph. 2:1)
I assume you're referring to "heos" in Greek, translated as "to" or "until," also used in 2 Sam 6:23...:
I referred to Mt. 1:25 even though "heos" sometimes, if rarely, may denote a terminus allowing for or indicating a change, but because while advocating a “plain meaning" literalism that would also literally turn John the Baptist into Elijah, etc., RCs fight tooth and nail to disallow the most natural meaning of heos in Mt. 1:25, as that is how it is almost always used, especially in the NT and in such a construction (i have done an extensive word study on this, examining the purported other uses, some of which are seen here).
Yet rather than objectively dealing with this and other texts which most naturally denote Mary as not being a perpetual virgin, which is not taught therein, and the Holy Spirit characteristically manifests such notable exceptions to the norm, RCs must utterly disallow this even as a possibility in order to support tradition that developed, and that also renders her sinless. Which has been and would be another thread.
I am grateful for having a magisterium competent to make Biblical interpretations that sync with oral teachings passed down through the ages.
We also affirm the magisterial office, but not as assuredly infallible, which Rome has infallibly declared she is (when speaking in accordance with her infallibly defined scope and content based criteria). And which office on one hand requires assent of faith to what she infallibly teaches, and yet on the other hand this still requires interpretation as to even how many things are infallibly taught, and which ones, and after, that, the meaning of both infallible and noninfallible teachings. And yet this also leaves you with multitudes of things you can disagree on, and great liberty to interpret the Bible in seeking to defend Rome.
And therein is the problem, as you are not allowed to objectively examine the Scriptures and be willing to go wherever the Truth leads, which is why souls as the Bereans examined the apostles preaching thereby, and thus Christianity began by dissent from those who sat in the seat of Moses who also presumed to teach tradition of men as doctrines, and instead truth-seeking souls followed an Itinerant Preacher whose authority they rejected, but who established His claims upon Scriptural substantiation. Instead you are bound to defend whatever you think Rome authoritatively teaches (though this can vary among RCs).
"The intolerance of the Church toward error, the natural position of one who is the custodian of truth, her only reasonable attitude makes her forbid her children to read or to listen to heretical controversy, or to endeavor to discover religious truths by examining both sides of the question...
“The reason of this stand of his is that, for him, there can be no two sides to a question which for him is settled; for him, there is no seeking after the truth: he possesses it in its fulness, as far as God and religion are concerned. His Church gives him all there is to be had; all else is counterfeit..
Who else can teach him religious truth when he believes that an infallible Church gives him God's word and interprets it in the true and only sense? — (John H. Stapleton, Explanation of Catholic Morals, Chapters XIX, XXIII. the consistent believer (1904); Nihil Obstat. Remy Lafort, Censor Librorum. Imprimatur, John M. Farley, Archbishop of New York; http://www.gutenberg.org/files/18438/18438-h/18438-h.htm )
“Absolute, immediate, and unfaltering submission to the teaching of God's Church on matters of faith and morals-----this is what all must give..”
“The Vicar of Christ is the Vicar of God; to us the voice of the Pope is the voice of God. This, too, is why Catholics would never dream of calling in question the utterance of a priest in expounding Christian doctrine according to the teaching of the Church;”
“He is as sure of a truth when declared by the Catholic Church as he would be if he saw Jesus Christ standing before him and heard Him declaring it with His Own Divine lips.” “Henry G. Graham, "What Faith Really Means", (Nihil Obstat:C. SCHUT, S. T.D., Censor Deputatus, Imprimatur: EDM. CANONICUS SURMONT, D.D.,Vicarius Generalis. WESTMONASTERII, Die 30 Septembris, 1914 ; http://www.catholictradition.org/Tradition/faith2-10.htm)]
And at one time lay Catholics were forbidden to engage in debates such as this.
...”another regretful display of your IGNORANCE.”
Imagining that AFFIRMING WORKS means one is growing closer to Rome (and which effects less commitment) is consistent with your IMAGINATIVE PROPHECIES. Once again, you have marginalized yourself as one not worthy of dialog. Bye.”
~ ~ ~
I’ve never called you ignorant, the rules, do not make it personal, say unkind things.
The heresies of Protestantism, they’re not true. A doer of righteousness involves “action”...a “work.” This pleases God very much. You can’t get to Heaven without “works”, it’s time to reject believing you can get there on the falsehood of “Faith Alone.”
Jesus is not returning soon to tell the world they are fine
to believe whatever they wish, why return, this is the state of belief now for the secular world and Protestantism.
Despise not prophecy, it’s written in Scripture, the prophets are listed second to the Apostles in the Bible. You do not like what the Protestant messages from Heaven are saying? Over and over Our Lord repeats in the Protestant messages to correct, Sola Fide is a lie. Prophecy makes explicit, God is going to bring Christianity into unity, a oneness of belief and it’s going happen in a miraculous way...”soon.”
Jesus keeps telling Protestants in their messages that He has more for them, a fullness of understanding, believe. Open your heart to the Real Presence. If you do this all your objections, misunderstandings about the faith will fall away.
The only thing I hate is morbid, soul-destroying false doctrine and the evil Father of Lies who is behind it all. Is there a morbid hatred of Protestants and Non-Catholic Christians behind your own spewing?
Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good. (Romans 12:9)
The arguing, objections have been going on since 1517. Instead, understand what the messages from Heaven are saying. Our Lord can’t directly say to Protestants, the Remnant is Roman Catholic. Why? They won’t believe but He can indirectly and He has for a long time.
There aren’t that many current prophets, do not reject them.
And proof the messages come from Heaven. We are limited on how we express ourselves but can you believe, Jesus has been saying the SAME THING for 14 years in the time I’ve read them. The divine plan hasn’t changed but every day God speaks through prophecy, explaining the same but never duplicating, only God can do this.
Read an excerpt from the latest to Protestant Elaine
Tavolacci. I typed in non-Christians.
ELAINE TAVOLACCI
Staten Island, NY
“The Awe Of God”
August 23, 2012
This morning as I was driving in my car playing worship music, I was suddenly caught up in a cloud of glory. I thought to myself, this is the “awe of God”. The presence of the Holy Spirit was so intense that I pulled my car over to the side of the road to record this incredible word that I received from the Lord.
The Lord says, I am about to visit My people in ways that will astound them. I am about to release My awe in your lives and MANIFEST MYSELF AMONG YOU IN WAYS THAT YOU HAVE NOT YET KNOWN. The level of My glory will even amaze many believers as well as the unbelievers. I will bring those of you who know Me to a GREATER level, and MULTITUDES WHO DON’T KNOW ME. (non-Christians) will also be swept into the kingdom. Shake off all spiritual lethargy and prepare your hearts for THIS SPIRITUAL AWAKENING. Throw off anything that would restrain you so that will not be hindered from receiving ALL that is available to you. Don’t allow old wine skins to get in the way of receiving the new wine that is being distributed. PREPARE YOURSELF FOR THE AWE THAT I AM ABOUT TO RELEASE. Listen for My voice. Those who are listening will recognize My voice throughout the daytime as well as during the night. I will speak in visions and dreams to those who have ears to hear and eyes to see. Allow Me to abide in your midst, walk with you and talk with you. A personal relationship with Me such as Enoch had is achievable. To be led by faith just as Abraham was is possible. To RECEIVE REVELATION AS MEN AND WOMEN OF OLD RECEIVED AS MEN AND WOMEN OF OLD RECEIVED IS AVAILABLE. This is a new season when you will no longer question Me, because you will see a greater dimension of My power. You will experience a GREATER LEVEL of miracles, signs and wonders in your midst. My prophets will speak My words with accuracy and authority to bring change, set free, deliver and as well as release creative miracles. ...
Amen!
Thankyou both for your many posts and the Spirit with which you post them and for caring about what the interpretation is rather than who's the interpretation is.
God bless
One thing further I'd like to say to you. I don't believe that to be a good Catholic I have to be antiProtestant. I have 3 Protestant clergy in the family and sometimes I'll listen to online sermons of the eldest. I'm usually impressed with his preaching. Some of the most sincere Christians I know are Protestants. I also know many Catholics who can zip through the Bible pretty well and put me to shame in their love of the Lord. I'm blessed to know good people in both camps, praise God. Perhaps in future you can give me the benefit of the doubt that I'm not trying to be uncharitable, rather chose my wording poorly.
How do you deal with those that insist you can't?
To be honest, you're the first to bring it up.
How do you answer those who declare that we will only know we are saved when we face the judgment at the end of time
I'm never in a position to have to give an answer like that. But to you I'll say that I believe what the Church teaches about sin. I'm confident to face my judgment if I haven't intentionally AND without repentence rejected Christ by choosing to act against him. That's really what mortal sin (1 Jn 5:17) is. It's when I choose to walk away from God and make an idol of something else. As long as I do my best to be faithful (Gal 5:6) through love, all's going to be well. God knows when I mess up out of weakness and when I mess up out of rebellious rejection. I have so much experience of God's mercy that I trust it without question. It sounds like you do too and I appreciate that we have that in common.
and then only if we have done enough good works "in cooperation with God's grace" and don't have any "mortal sins" on our souls?
We believe in conforming our conduct, not only to please God, but because we cannot know or carry out his will/plan for our lives if we refuse to live as he instructed us to live. Obedience is what I strive for (and fail to achieve), not good works. If my obedience results in a good work, that's great. The good came because I was obedient (or docile to the Holy Spirit) and Christ was able to work through me. So that good work was Christ's doing not mine; the glory and credit are his not mine. Think of Gal 2:20. The goal is to allow Christ to live and act through me, not to do my own good works on a brownie point system.
For sin to be mortal, I must be aware of it and purposefully choose it in defiance. The problem in mortal sin is the internal disposition that says "my way, not God's way. I choose me not God." I would expect some difficulties at judgment if I am persisting in an unreprentant mindset that says "me not God."
BTW, I'm not in the habit of discussing my confessions, but I will tell you this. Once when I had done some pretty bad things, the priest shocked me. After acknowledging the harm I'd done, he went on to suggest ways God could use each one of those situations for good. Like our merciful Jesus, he came up with an excuse for each of my misdeeds. Just like Jesus from the cross made an excuse ("for they know not what they do.") That priest was showing me the face of our merciful Jesus :) He showed me that Jesus knows if I am blatantly rejecting him out of rebellion or falling short out of weakness. I have no worries that Jesus doesn't understand my heart or the reasons for my actions. I have complete trust in his mercy. As Catholics, we strive for prayerful union with Christ, not to live by a list of do's or don'ts that will/won't get us into heaven.
Dang, I knew I couldn't write a short answer as I had hoped!
I wish you wouldn’t leave, it’s less mean spirited when you post, you have a way...
Stpio, thank you, but I take Jesus at his word (Mt 5:22) about the type of discourse we should have. If my comments inflame someone or I find myself responding less than charitably, then it's proper for me to withdraw and resume again another time on another thread.
We don't generally allow family members to berate each other in our homes. I think our heavenly Father expects even higher standards among his children. It's no wonder the atheists think we're fools when we can't live up to what we profess to believe.
Also an extended relative is ill and I have family coming in from out of state to make decisions about care. I would appreciate your prayers and thank you in advance.
daniel1212, I thank you for your response. I'd like to say just one thing briefly. You wrote, "And therein is the problem, as you are not allowed to objectively examine the Scriptures and be willing to go wherever the Truth leads,
Jesus told his apostles three times the night before he died that he would send the Spirit to guide them in the truth (Jn 14:17, 15:26, 16:13). Paul confirms that the Church is the bulwark of truth (1 Tim 3:15). I mean no disrepect when I say this, but I don't see Jesus telling me to go looking for truth on my own. I see him promising the Spirit to guide the Church in truth and giving me the choice to accept the shepherds (RCC) he's placed over me or not. I choose to accept them.
And to be clear, that last sentence wasn't an insult. Somewhere above I posted what the catechism says about Protestants not sinning for worship in their faith traditions. I didn't post that for the Protestants. I posted it as a reminder to the Catholics ;) You and I disagree about many things, but I respect your zeal and reverence for scripture.
Real life calls and so I truly must sign off for good this time. I really only wanted to clarify that I wasn't slamming Protestants and never meant to get so long-winded. Thanks again to all for the discussion. Peace be with you all.
Thanks be to God.
Isn’t the greatest difference between Catholics and Protestants the belief that Catholics have to go through a human being to get to Christ>>>>
what human(s) might that be?
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