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To: Colofornian; Elsie; Zakeet
Back to the subject of the thread:

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"They (muslims) ridicule the idea of taqiyya, calling it "the hiding of true beliefs, religiously sanctioned for Muslims, usually minority Shiites, under hostile rule." They don't mention that the idea of religious deception in Islam is not just held by Shi'ites, but is founded on the Koran, which tells Muslims that they can pretend to be friends with unbelievers to "guard themselves against them" (3:28). A hadith explains this as meaning "We smile in the faces of some people, but behind their backs we curse them." That sounds like Rauf, with his love for religious dialogue in English and rejection of it in Arabic, to me."
Pamela Geller
Why Some People Don’t Trust What Mormons Say.
http://www.ldsrevelations.com/blog/?p=62

“I have said for years that the LDS Church and it’s members are not exactly truthful with outsiders about their religion. In fact, many times they are purposely deceitful about beliefs, practices or doctrines that are problematic. Mormons tell me this is simply not true— that there is no systematic deception in the Church.

I know better. I used to be on their team and call it what you want— “milk before meat”, avoiding casting “pearls before swine”, or “coded language”, it’s all lying as far as I’m concerned. If the answers are designed to mislead the questioner then clearly there’s some deception going on whether or not the deceivers have justified it their own minds .

I bring this up because in his recent Mormon Times article, http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705379338/Hugh-Nibleys-coded-language-and-the-minority-mind-set.html?pg=all Boyd J. Petersen discusses this phenomenon. He talks about ” the divided sense of self that” LDS who migrate out of Mormon communities “often experience in the larger society.” Peterson also refers to this condition as a “divided self” or “double consciousness.”

Peterson says:

“Mormons would like nothing more than to see themselves as fully American and fully Mormon,” Petersen said, ‘but they are constantly forced to see their Mormonness through the lens of ignorance and misconception that their fellow Americans have.””

Peterson then talks about the use of coded language:

“One coping mechanism minorities use is to develop a special coded language. It allows them to speak to two different audiences at once. It is a form of doublespeak, and Mormons use it to both give information and to hide information, according to Petersen.

One example Petersen used involved a response Mitt Romney gave during his presidential run when asked about doing baptisms for the dead. Romney said, ‘I have in my life, but I haven’t recently.’

Outsiders might deduce a mild renunciation of the practice. Most Mormons, however, know that baptisms for the dead are usually performed by youths.”

While I understand the complexities of trying to explain a culture or lifetstyle to those outside of it, I can’t help but think that doublespeak and coded launguage only make the problem worse. How can people begin to understand Mormonism when the members themselves are unwilling or unable to tell the truth about the belief system? And how will outsiders learn to trust Mormons when they have reason to think everything they are told by LDS members is some sort of coded dodge?It’s just plain dishonest as well.

So I ask, “What has happened to the proud LDS tradition of boldy telling the truth that is taught in Sunday School and in Conference?” Is that all doublespeak as well?


82 posted on 08/01/2012 11:45:44 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Tell the 52,000 mormon missionaries to stop going worldwide proclaiming Christianity to be false.)
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To: greyfoxx39
...the hiding of true beliefs...

What they DO expose is enough for folks with more than one brain cell!

85 posted on 08/01/2012 12:32:51 PM PDT by Elsie
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To: greyfoxx39; ejonesie22; All
"They (muslims) ridicule the idea of taqiyya, calling it "the hiding of true beliefs, religiously sanctioned for Muslims, usually minority Shiites, under hostile rule." They don't mention that the idea of religious deception in Islam is not just held by Shi'ites, but is founded on the Koran, which tells Muslims that they can pretend to be friends with unbelievers to "guard themselves against them" (3:28). A hadith explains this as meaning "We smile in the faces of some people, but behind their backs we curse them." That sounds like Rauf, with his love for religious dialogue in English and rejection of it in Arabic, to me." Pamela Geller Why Some People Don’t Trust What Mormons Say. http://www.ldsrevelations.com/blog/?p=62 “I have said for years that the LDS Church and it’s members are not exactly truthful with outsiders about their religion. In fact, many times they are purposely deceitful about beliefs, practices or doctrines that are problematic.

Indeed...Lds bait & switch as well...

They tell investigators to pray about the Book of Mormon & its content; but MOST of primary Lds doctrines are NOT to be even found in the Book of Mormon!

108 posted on 08/01/2012 4:06:35 PM PDT by Colofornian
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