“and were not included in Scripture by any body of Christians until the Church of Rome arbitrarily decided to include them at the Council of Trent in the sixteenth century.”
i realize not many Baptists have a clue about Church History before the 16th century, ( when they appear on the world stage for the first time ), but the above statement is down right IGNORANT.
The Greek Orthodox split from the Latin Church in 1054, and therefore do not accept Trent as a Church Council.
what is the OT canon of the Greek Orthodox?
what books of the OT were in the Latin Vulgate in the 4th century?
what OT books were declared canonical in the 397ad council of carthage?
the oriental orthodox split from the Catholic Church in the 5th century, how many books are there in their OT canon?
this post is embarrassing in its ignorance of Church history.
Thank you for this. A very good run down on the creation and purpose behind what we KNOW is the true Word of God. I think it is especially note worthy what the author says about the Apocryphal books. We know that the Greek Septuagint contained them but they were in an entirely separate section - as they should be - and, though they were interesting and covered the period of time between the book of Malachi and the birth of Jesus, they were easily shown to NOT be Divinely inspired which is why they were not part of the Jewish canon. I'm sure there will be some who will object to this simply because they have been told by their higher-ups that these books ARE part of Holy Scripture, but it is most noteworthy that Jerome, who initially wrote the Vulgate (the Latin translation), also did not consider them on the same level as the non-disputed books.
Those who defend the Apocryphal books, do so out of misplaced loyalty to their religious leaders of the past than they do what God has delivered for us all. As the article points out, these disputed books contain numerous errors and that alone SHOULD disqualify them from being thought of as God-breathed Scripture. If you have ever read them, they do not even SOUND like the rest of Scripture does. They lack that spiritual grip - that sense that this is from God. This remains a big deal to some and they will fight tooth and nail over the issue, accusing others of ignorance and all sorts of silly things, and forget that the rest of the Bible - the 66 books - are NOT in dispute with any Christian. No, we have the Bible God meant for us to have and it STILL works in the heart of all those who answer the call of Almighty God.
G-d dictated the Torah to Moses letter-for-letter and Moses wrote it down. It is the only book that has not been canonized by a human authority (because it wasn't necessary) and requires no "faith" or "belief" at all. The Jewish People have always
known that the Torah is from Heaven. As such it is the supreme revelation and sits in judgment on all other claims of revelation.
The Nevi'im (Prophets) and Ketuvim (the "Writings" or Hagiographa) were canonized by 'Anshei HaKenesset HaGedolah (the "Men of the Great Assembly"). To accept them is to accept the authority of the canonizing body.
The "new testament" was canonized by the Catholic/Orthodox churches in the "fourth century." To accept them is also to accept the authority of the canonizing bodies. Needless to day, the Jewish People do not accept their authority any more than they accept the authority of Mohammed or Joseph Smith to make up new religions.
i have read the whole thread and rather than posting 10 different replies, will post this one. for id purposes only, i will use the term “sca” for so called apocrypha to identify the “disputed” OT books.
1. mr thomas, the author of the aricle stated no Christian considered the SCA Scripture before Rome did in the 16th century. i pointed out what an absurd statement this was and have to wonder whether mr thomas is merely ignorant of history ( in which case he shouldn’t be writing about matters he doesn’t understand ) or more likely he is trying to deceive his readers. after all, if he told the truth, somebody might wonder WHY no one had a 66 book Bible BEFORE the 16th century.
2. forthedeclaration states the Bible was preserved by non-Catholic Christians. REALLY????? Do the “Christians” have any names?
3 mrs don-o congatulations on the truth you are bringing forth. as is often the case, some can’t handle it.
4. salvation, i did smile at the Epistle today from Ephesians. there is “one” canon included in the “one” Faith.
5. BB, where to start? these books were NOT seperated from the other OT books in the Septuagint. LOL, i think you are confusing what some Protestants did with them in the 16th century, such as the authors of the KJV. Jerome, was a great Catholic leader, but he by himself couldn’t decide doctrine. He submitted to the Church and included the SCA in the Vulgate.
When the devil wants to attack the Scriptures, he always accuses them of teaching error, nothing new under the sun.
LOL, you don’t think they sound like Scripture! is that the standard? obviously the great majority of Christians for 2,000 years disagree with you.
Back to St Jerome, i always laugh when those who reject the Catholic Faith, reject baptismal regeneration, the Eucharist, the Papacy, apostolic succession, etc, all doctrines held by St Jerome, use him to attack that very same Faith when it comes to the canon of Scripture. Unbelievable!
the bottom line is, How can we know what is the true canon?
we can KNOW the canon of the Catholic Church is correct for two reasons:
1. Authority - Jesus gave His AUTHORITY to the Church in Matthew 28 to TEACH. we are not left to wonder or have to decide the correct canon for ourself, we merely must follow the Faith that has been AUTHORIZED to be taught and has been for 2,000 years.
2. The Holy Spirit - this dovetails with the authority given the Church, in that Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to the Church to give it the power to teach and the wisdom to TEACH TRUTH and understand spiritual ideas. The Holy Spirit works thru the Church, and yes, Church Councils, to bring forth true doctrine. so when St Paul opened up the Scriptures, he saw the SCA in his Bible. was this a suprise to the Holy Spirit? Did He inspire St Paul to warn Christians these SCA were not Scripture?
did the 1st century Jews, who utterly rejected Jesus, did they possess the Holy Spirit? the answer is no they did not, why would ANYONE look to the 1st century lost Jews to decide their canon??? The Church had the Holy Spirit leading it to ALL TRUTH.
would the Holy Spirit ALLOW the wrong books to be in the Bible for 1,500 years? again, this can not be stated enough, the first 66 book Bible did not appear on the world stage until the 16th century.
if the Church could be wrong about the canon of the OT, they could also be wrong about the 27 book NT. we know they were led by the Holy Spirit in both instances, but for those on the other side, who follow the Catholic TRADITION of 27 books in the NT, why do you follow this TRADITION?
finally, to all the non-Catholics who reject the SCA, DOES ANY HUMAN, LIVING AT ANY POINT SINCE THE APOSTLES ALL DIES, HAVE THE INFALLIBLE AUTHORITY TO DECLARE THIS IS THE CORRECT CANON OF SCRIPTURE? If yes, please name him or her and where their AUTHORITY COMES FROM?
