Posted on 07/22/2012 2:20:02 PM PDT by stpio
As usual, none of my five siblings or their families go to Holy Mass on Sunday. A Commandment is a Commandment, in the New Covenant assembling to worship God on Sunday is divine law. Does anyone else have family who skip Church on Sunday? Our nation is going further and further away from God. Are we seeing the beginning of God's just judgment?
~ ~ ~
* Hidden in Scripture, message from Mary: the dire effect of violating Sabbath *
July 20, 2012
We all know the requirement to attend Mass every weekend. Few realize, however, how seriously Heaven takes this.
That seriousness is witnessed in the Old Testament.
Look at Exodus 32, the Lord saying to Moses:
"You must also tell the Israelites: Take care to keep my Sabbaths, for that is to be the token between you and Me through the generations, to show that it is I, the Lord, Who make you holy. Therefore, you must keep the Sabbath as something sacred. Whoever desecrates it shall be put to death."
Tough stuff.
And granted, Christ came with a new covenant (one that in many ways was gentler).
There were not the harsh judgments we find in many parts of the Old.
But the Bible is the Bible and that the Sabbath is important seemed in ample evidence also when the Virgin Mary appeared in 1846 at LaSalette, France, and specifically warned that there was a chastisement coming because people were violating the law of weekly worship.
"I gave you six days to work, I kept the seventh for myself, and no one wishes to grant it to me," said Mary in September of 1846 to two visionaries.
"This is what weighs down the arm of my Son.
"If the harvest is spoiled, it is only because of the rest of you. I made you see this last year with the potatoes; you took little account of this. It was quite the opposite when you found bad potatoes; you swore oaths, and you included the Name of my Son. They will continue to go bad; at Christmas there will be none left. A great famine will come. Before the famine comes, children under the age of seven will begin to tremble and will die in the arms of those who hold them."
A bit like Exodus?
The Blessed Mother warned that the potatoes would rot and there would be a famine and she said they had been given a warning the previous years when they found some bad potatoes.
Now, they would all be bad, or far more.
And, incredibly: it was the onset of what became known in Ireland and this part of France as well as elsewhere as the Great Potato Famine.
Where a third of potatoes were "bad" the year before in Ireland (afflicted with blight), by the end of 1846 -- the year of the apparition -- three-quarters were thusly ruined.
And while few died in 1846, huge numbers were to succumb during the winter of 1847-1848, when more than a million died in Ireland alone, their bodies weakened and susceptible to diseases like cholera, which, true to Mary's words (which were approved by the Church) caused the young to tremble.
There is a pattern. We are warned. This comes through small "disasters." We heed the warning or are warned again -- this time with more serious events. And so forth.
What is the warning now? Should we note the droughts in Australia and North America? When we look at how weather events have been intensifying we see the same principle -- including with droughts that, as happened with blight, threaten widespread crop shortages. Says 2 Chronicles 36: "Until the land has retrieved its lost Sabbaths, during all the time it lies waste it shall have rest while seventy years are fulfilled."
Right now, corn farmers in the Midwest are praying (as we should also) for rain.
Serious, indeed, especially when we look at our own time and the way the Sabbath is treated now. In the U.S., weekly Mass attendance is at about 22 percent, according to one study.
Is it as bad as back in 1846, in rural France, or worse -- even far worse -- when it comes to disrespect for the Lord?
LOL!
“Well I agree....scripture is not by private interpretation. Where we disagree is the church we submit our authority to.”
~ ~ ~
There is not another “church”, Our Lord established one Church to go with one faith.
“As you said it’s historical. Sunday worship exists primarily due to the wish of SOME EARLY CHRISTIANS to distance themselves from anything that looked too “Jewish”. This was due to the antipathy toward Judea on account of a series of Jewish revolts against the Roman empire.”
~ ~ ~
“Some”, how could an error come from the early Christians?
And now, a few who protest 2000 years later are so wise as to point it out? What did the Apostles get right? Paul was in error? It’s his term, “the first day of the week.”
The majority of Christians in history and those alive today accept Paul’s term for Sunday.
“However it’s important to realize that scripture grants no such change to the holy days of the Lord Jesus Christ.”
~ ~ ~
“Scripture” is only part of God’s revelation. The authority given the Apostles to change the Sabbath came from God Himself.
Matt. 10:1,40 - Jesus declares to His apostles, “he who receives you, receives Me, and he who rejects you, rejects Me and the One who sent Me.” Jesus freely gives His authority to the apostles in order for them to effectively convert the world.
Matt. 16:19; 18:18 - the apostles are given Christ’s authority to make visible decisions on earth that will be ratified in heaven. God raises up humanity in Christ by exalting his chosen leaders and endowing them with the authority and grace they need to bring about the conversion of all. Without a central authority in the Church, there would be chaos (as there is in Protestantism).
Luke 9:1; 10:19 - Jesus gives the apostles authority over the natural and the supernatural (diseases, demons, serpents, and scorpions).
Luke 10:16 - Jesus tells His apostles, “he who hears you, hears Me.” When we hear the bishops’ teaching on the faith, we hear Christ Himself.
Paul did not call it the "first day of the week". He called it the first of the sabbaths..or one of the sabbaths. Look at the greek if you don't believe me. He was no doubt referring to either the weekly sabbath or to one of the sabbaths that is counted from the days of unleavened bread to get to Pentecost. This was explained in an earlier post.
“However it’s important to realize that scripture grants no such change to the holy days of the Lord Jesus Christ.”
~ ~ ~
“Scripture” is only part of God’s revelation. The authority given the Apostles to change the Sabbath came from God Himself.
Matt. 10:1,40 - Jesus declares to His apostles, “he who receives you, receives Me, and he who rejects you, rejects Me and the One who sent Me.” Jesus freely gives His authority to the apostles in order for them to effectively convert the world.
Matt. 16:19; 18:18 - the apostles are given Christ’s authority to make visible decisions on earth that will be ratified in heaven. God raises up humanity in Christ by exalting his chosen leaders and endowing them with the authority and grace they need to bring about the conversion of all. Without a central authority in the Church, there would be chaos (as there is in Protestantism).
Luke 9:1; 10:19 - Jesus gives the apostles authority over the natural and the supernatural (diseases, demons, serpents, and scorpions).
Luke 10:16 - Jesus tells His apostles, “he who hears you, hears Me.” When we hear the bishops’ teaching on the faith, we hear Christ Himself.
+ + +
I gave you the Gospel proof Douglas and you ignore, no reply. Same ignoring of “Bible Alone”, no Protestant can find ML’s heresy in Scripture.
Why the denial of the obvious? Catholics and most non-Catholic Christians gather to worship God on Sunday not
Saturday. They assemble together in a building called
a Church, you can find them worldwide. Sitting at home
reading the Bible does not fulfill God’s Commandment
to keep holy one day for Him, Sunday.
“Paul did not call it the “first day of the week”. He called it the first of the sabbaths..or one of the sabbaths. Look at the greek IF YOU DON’T BELIEVE ME. He was no doubt referring to either the weekly sabbath or to one of the sabbaths that is counted from the days of unleavened bread to get to Pentecost. This was explained in an earlier post.”
~ ~ ~
A couple of non-Christian sects believe you, I don’t. Stubbornly sit home on Sunday, to your loss. Why do people
protesting the faith think they are wiser than the first Christians?
Our Lord’s plan, we can know, the faith has been passed down.
These days, not very many Catholics go to Mass on Sunday and even less, non-Catholic Christians attend Church on Sunday, instead, people go shopping and to the stadiums to worship sports.
A few years BEFORE Our Lady appeared at La Salette, Jesus
spoke of the same grave sin (sins).
God’s just judgment on our country has begun, we’re seeing it.
~ ~ ~
It was on August 26, 1843 — that Sister Mary, the mystic in Tours, who had grown up in a devout family, and had early brushes with death, received a similar revelation when there was a “terrible storm during which I felt the Justice of an angry God as I had never before felt it in my life.
Kneeling, so that my forehead touched the ground, I ceaselessly offered our Savior, Jesus Christ, to His Eternal Father, for the expiation of my sins and for the needs of the Holy Church. I spoke to Him about the incident of the storm. I asked Him to tell me the reason why I felt so strongly on that day the roused anger of His Eternal Father.
“My Name is everywhere blasphemed,” Jesus allegedly responded, showing her that such misuse of His Name nullified His redemption and cursed Him to His Face. “There are even children who blaspheme!” the sister heard in locution.
...Two weeks after the aforementioned revelation, Sister Mary said the Lord “seized possession of the powers of my soul” and caused her to hear the following words: “The whole Earth is covered with crimes and the violation of the FIRST THREE of the Ten Commandments of God has aroused the anger of My Father. The crimes that fill up the cup of wickedness are blasphemies against God’s Holy Name and the profanation of Sundays. These sins have reached the very Throne of Almighty God, and they have provoked His wrath which is about to strike everywhere unless His Justice be appeased. Never before have these crimes reached such a peak.”
http://www.spiritdaily.com/sistermary.htm
Exactly. The church that was to imitate Christ.
Paul wrote to the Thessolonians:
1Th 2:14 For you, brethren, became imitators of the churches of God which are in Judea in Christ Jesus...
Part of that imitation of Christ, or of the Church of God, is to honor him by keeping his sabbaths. Again these are listed in Leviticus 23. They are the very same ones our Lord and Master, Jesus Christ, created and then observed when he became flesh.
You may well believe that and I understand that belief...but it essentially gives man free license to alter what God has given and what God reveals.
Rejection of the sabbaths of the Lord are recurrent themes in prophecy. For example:
Eze 22:26 Her priests have violated My law and profaned My holy things; they have not distinguished between the holy and unholy, nor have they made known the difference between the unclean and the clean; and they have hidden their eyes from My Sabbaths, so that I am profaned among them.
Strong words for Christ. He equates rejecting his sabbath with profaning the Lord.
The commandment was to keep his sabbath holy, which is the 7th day of the week..or in modern terms, Friday sunset to Saturday sunset:
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done.
Gen 2:3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
Remember:
Exo 20:8 "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
Exo 20:10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates.
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
So God created it holy and it is to remain holy.
Well what does the greek say? It's not a matter of belief. It's a matter of evidence. Either the greek reads "one of the sabbaths" or not.
And the first Christians no doubt kept the commandments of Christ by worshipping on and keeping the Lord's sabbath holy. Many Christians today gather with those of like mind and do the same today.
“Well what does the greek say? It’s not a matter of belief. It’s a matter of evidence. Either the greek reads “one of the sabbaths” or not.
And the first Christians no doubt kept the commandments of Christ by worshipping on and keeping the Lord’s sabbath holy. Many Christians today gather with those of like mind and do the same today.”
~ ~ ~
Silly, “belief” is major, there’s “evidence” and “belief” for 2000 years~!!
Same old dear Douglas, repeating, and you asked so I gave you the Gospel verses but you don’t reply to the verses that show the Apostles were given the authority by Christ to change the Sabbath. Our Lord arose from the dead on Sunday, Pentecost happened on Sunday. John in Revelation tells us the Heavenly liturgy is celebrated on Sunday.
And you repeat the same objection again, trying to make one verse in Scripture fit your rejection of the Lord’s Day. The EVIDENCE, Catholics mostly and many Christians worship God on Sunday as everyone should. They BELIEVE the Apostles. Remember, God shares in the Old Testament, He is going to change the Sabbath. This is the meaning of “another day” in Hebrews 4:8-9. It happened brother.
Your second paragraph, keeping it vague, you don’t say who, name the first Christians, say where or when regarding “Christians”, then and now?
What’s your reason for saying no? May I ask, are you a 7th Day Adventist or I hope not, one of those who follow a newer Protestant sect, Messianic Judaism and their denominations (splits). I am Roman Catholic, a revert
in adulthood.
“The commandment was to keep his sabbath holy, which is the 7th day of the week..or in modern terms, Friday sunset to Saturday sunset:
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done.
Gen 2:3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
Remember:
Exo 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
Exo 20:10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates.
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
So God created it holy and it is to remain holy.”
~ ~ ~
Non-Christian “sect” talk, Christians are part of the New Covenant. You didn’t share one Gospel verse. The Sabbath was changed, we already read God is unhappy with the Sabbath
Isaiah 1:13-14
Offer sacrifice no more in vain: incense is an abomination to me. The new moons, and the sabbaths, and other festivals I will not abide, your assemblies are wicked. [14] My soul hateth your new moons, and your solemnities: they are become troublesome to me, I am weary of bearing them.
Col. 2:16-17 - Paul teaches that the Sabbath was only a shadow of what was fulfilled in Christ, and says “let no one pass judgment any more over a Sabbath.”
I'm going to assume that you agree that the greek reads "one of the sabbaths".
Same old dear Douglas, repeating, and you asked so I gave you the Gospel verses but you don’t reply to the verses that show the Apostles were given the authority by Christ to change the Sabbath.
Nobody has the authority to changed a commandment of the Lord. They are laws of universe..immutable and unchangeable because they express the character of the Lord himself, love.
Our Lord arose from the dead on Sunday,
I disagree but the proof is beyond the scope of this post.
Pentecost happened on Sunday.
And God's other feast days (listed in Leviticus) can happen on any other day of the week....
John in Revelation tells us the Heavenly liturgy is celebrated on Sunday.
He tells us no such thing.
Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet,
"Sunday" is not used. Nor is "first day of the week". Biblically the only "Lord's day" is the sabbath of the Lord:
Mar_2:28 Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath."
Christ was affirming this:
Lev 23:2 "Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: 'The feasts of the LORD, which you shall proclaim to be holy convocations, these are My feasts.
Lev 23:3 'Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation. You shall do no work on it; it is the Sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.
Lev 23:4 'These are the feasts of the LORD, holy convocations which you shall proclaim at their appointed times.
Note that it IS the sabbath of the Lord. The sabbath IS the Lord's day.
This is the meaning of “another day” in Hebrews 4:8-9. It happened brother.
No, it's not. This is referring to verse 7:
Heb 4:7 This is shown by the fact that God sets another day, which is called "Today." Many years later he spoke of it through David in the scripture already quoted: "If you hear God's voice today, do not be stubborn."
I used the Good News Bible to make the point...it's referring to the fact that David wrote "today" many years after Joshua. In verse 8 the author is making the point that in David's time there was "another day". It has nothing to do with a future disregard of the sabbath of the Lord.
“I’m going to assume that you agree that the greek reads “one of the sabbaths.”
~ ~ ~
You took almost every sentence of mine and separated them to comment with your reply. I prefer keeping someone’s post together, then comment underneath or replying to one sentence or two at time, per post.
There was one question I asked, you didn’t reply to, what is the name of your particular ecclesiastical community? It would help to understand your objections.
“Agree” I wish we could, Protestants are inconsistent in their beliefs except for one, they all agree to reject the true faith.
“One of the sabbaths”, doesn’t prove anything. You may think you made Scripture say what you want to believe by four words if that’s what they are? You spoke of “authority”, you have no authority to interpret Scripture and neither do I. God gave the Church, the RCC the authority to interpret Scripture. Before the Church canonized Scripture that every single non-Catholic privately interprets to their error causing more splits, the Apostles and the early Christians knew which day they assembled.
blessings,
This is a style that I've employed for quite some time. I find it helps to keep the comments in context and is less confusing to me.
There was one question I asked, you didn’t reply to, what is the name of your particular ecclesiastical community? It would help to understand your objections.
That information is on my profile page. I consider my beliefs to be as close to 1st century Christianity as is possible. I fellowship with United Church of God .
I don't consider myself a protestant as I'm not protesting against the Roman church. On the contrary, the beliefs I hold predate the Roman church and really pre-date the Protestant churches thus there is nothing to protest against.
“One of the sabbaths”, doesn’t prove anything. You may think you made Scripture say what you want to believe by four words if that’s what they are? You spoke of “authority”, you have no authority to interpret Scripture and neither do I. God gave the Church, the RCC the authority to interpret Scripture.
That's certainly the belief of the Roman Catholic church. But God's church is led through the indwelling spirit of Jesus Christ and his will is checked and verified against the scripture he left us.
Good News Bible:
4:7 This is shown by the fact that God sets another day, which is called “Today.” Many years later he spoke of it through David in the scripture already quoted: “If you hear God’s voice today, do not be stubborn.”
4:8 If Joshua had given the people the rest that God had promised, God would not have spoken later about another day.
“I used the Good News Bible to make the point...it’s referring to the fact that David wrote “today” many years after Joshua. In verse 8 the author is making the point that in David’s time there was “another day”. It has nothing to do with a future disregard of the sabbath of the Lord.”
~ ~ ~
No offense, your point doesn’t make sense, the Douay-Rheims Bible, a word for word translation of the Latin Vulgate, the first Bible, says Jesus is written in Hebrews 4:8. Look at the difference, the Good News Bible has changed a couple of words. I have to ask, you do accept Our Lord has always been God? Jesus was God in David’s time too.
Douay-Rheims Bible:
4:7 Again he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, Today, after so long a time, as it is above said: Today if you shall hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
4:8 For if JESUS had given them rest, he would never have afterwards spoken of another day.
footnote - Jesus: Josue, who in Greek is called Jesus. http://www.drbo.org/
John in Revelation tells us the Heavenly liturgy is celebrated on Sunday.
“He tells us no such thing.”
~ ~ ~
It is interesting to note that St. Paul had spent a week with the community in Troas (Acts 20:6), and this is the only reported time that he celebrated the “breaking of bread” with them. Also no remarks are made later in this passage that St. Paul disapproved of their worship on Sunday. One would expect St. Paul to object to this practice, if it were rooted in paganism.
Already in the Old Testament, God expresses disappointment over the Hebrew Sabbath (Isa. 1:13) In the New Testament, St. Paul writes:
Therefore let no one pass judgement on you in questions of food or drink or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are only a shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ. [Col. 2:16-17]
According to these verses, the Hebrew diet, festivals and Sabbaths are NO LONGER obligations for Christians. These were only a foreshadowing of things to come in Christ. The focus now is Christ (2 Cor. 3:7-17). Elsewhere St. Paul told the Corinthians to contribute money to the Church each Sunday (1 Cor 16:1-2). This would be a strange request, if Christians assembled on Saturdays. Hebrews 4:8 speaks of “ANOTHER DAY” because the former Sabbath was not obeyed. If Saturday were truly “carved in stone”, then it would be strange to speak of another day. According to Rev. 1:10, St. John “was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day.” This is the ONLY PLACE IN THE BIBLE where the phrase “THE LORD’S DAY” occurs. If his vision occurred on Saturday, St. John would have written “THE SABBATH” instead of using a NEW PHRASE.
You took almost every sentence of mine and separated them to comment with your reply. I prefer keeping someone’s post together, then comment underneath or replying to one sentence or two at time, per post.
“This is a style that I’ve employed for quite some time. I find it helps to keep the comments in context and is less confusing to me.”
~ ~ ~
You politely ask someone not to do something and the very
next reply, they do the same. Keep one or two sentences
together and comment on them in one post OR keep all of someone’s post together and reply under it, how is that so difficult?
...”helps to keep the comments in context”...
Actually, your way takes the other person’s words out of context. If there is a rebuttal, it will further take everything apart, now a set of three.
p.s. I appreciate it, thank you for sharing the name of your community.
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