Posted on 07/18/2012 2:49:51 AM PDT by iowamark
In the meantime, lets go down a side route for a moment and ask first of all, whether any history can be written objectively. Is it possible for a historian to write a historical account without a bias of any kind? No. Every historian is limited by his philosophical and cultural assumptions. Every historian comes to his task with certain guiding principles that he thinks are true or valuable or helpful. These guiding principles cause him to interpret the history he records. He cannot help but make value judgements on the actions he records. Furthermore, those value judgements are in effect in every aspect of the historians work. How does he choose which period of history to work on? How does he choose which events are momentous? How does he choose how to prioritize the events he records? How does he select the important personages and events from the past? As soon as he selects something to write about or study he is giving it prominence and therefore expressing his bias. The only way history can be objective is if it is a list of events in chronological order. The historian who is so naive as to imagine that he is not biased is even more compromised because his bias is invisible to him and therefore all the more influential.
Given the fact that the study of history must be biased, it is much better therefore if the pretense of objectivity is dropped. Much clearer if we know ahead of time that a historical study is written from a particular point of view. We can then make allowances for the bias and read other works from other perspectives to achieve balance. If I know that a particular historian is a Marxist or a feminist or a post-modern atheist I will understand their bias on history and the more they are open about it, while still trying to be as objective as possible, the better will the exercise be.
So, to return to the gospels, we have before us documents that purport to record historical events. The gospel says they are written so that you might know that Jesus is Christ the Son of God. They are derived from the experience of the first Christian community and written to help convert people to the Christian faith. Therefore we are well aware of the bias and the intention of the documents. Does this disqualify them completely?
No. The whole reason why I wish to convince my reader of a particular conclusion is because the events that I wish to relate are so compelling. If I wish to convince the reader that JFK was killed by a conspiracy of the mafia and Lyndon Johnson, that does not necessarily mean that the facts I present are totally bogus. The selection of the facts and the interpretation of the facts may be dubious and open to criticism, but the mere fact that a document is persuasive in intent does not mean that it is either fabricated or fraudulent.
We therefore have to consider the veracity of the documents themselves. They are presented as the record of eyewitness accounts. They are presented to the reader as a record of historical events. We therefore have to ask whether it is possible that the gospels do, in fact, record eyewitness accounts of the life of Jesus Christ. The first way we do this is to look at their authorship. Most scholars conclude that the synoptic gospels (Matthew, Mark and Luke) were composed before the death of St Peter and St Paul in the year 65 AD, and that the gospel of John was composed around the year 90AD. Some scholars say the Gospel of John is the first gospel writtenin the 50sjust twenty years after the death of Christ (JAT Robinson)
Who wrote the gospels Matthew is the only one of the three synoptic gospels authored by one of the Apostles himself. John is also written by an apostle. Mark was a disciple of Paul and Peter, and the early traditions say that he recorded Peters sermons and accounts of the life of Christ. Luke was also a companion of Paul and the early traditions are that he is the doctor who traveled with Paul, and that Luke also knew the Virgin Mary. Why does the authorship suggest authenticity? Precisely because two of the four gospel writers are NOT apostles. Critics like to suggest that the gospels are much later creationstheir authorship assigned falsely to the apostles. However, if this were the case, would not the authors of Mark and Lukes gospels have assigned them not to Mark and Luke, but to Peter and Paul? If the gospels were written by someone other than the apostles at a much later date, but used the apostles names to give their writings weight they would have written under the name of one of the apostlesnot Mark or Lukewho were not apostles.
We can therefore conclude with the majority of scholars that Marks gospel was indeed written by John Mark the companion of Peter, and Lukes gospel was written by Luke, the companion of Paul. Their sources therefore, were Peter and Paulboth eyewitnesses to the events portrayed in the gospel. Furthermore, these gospels were written just thirty years after the events described. This would be like us writing about events in 1982. Many people were still alive who remembered the events. Furthermore, these eyewitnesses of the events were members of the communities from which the gospels originated.
The stories were recorded and read aloud in worship by people who remembered the events and would have corrected any glaring errors. Evidence for this is in Mark 15.21 where Mark records that Simon of Cyrenewho helped carry the cross of Christwas the father of Rufus and Alexander. Mark is probably writing the account for the use of the Church in Rome where history records he ministered with Peter. In St Pauls epistle to the same Roman church he mentions Rufus as one of the faithful. (Romans 16.13) One can almost hear Peter talking about Simon of Cyrene and saying, And he was Rufus fatherwho is here with us now.
The fact that the gospels were records of sermons to the early church community strengthens the case for historical reliability because the community itself would exercise a form of check and balance with the historical record. Because it was a community activityrather than the work of an isolated authorthe fact checking would be part of the community life. This is why it is important that the New Testament is not the work of Jesus himself. One author is easily biased, misled, misinformed or just plain crazy. When the founder of a religion writes a book the whole book stands or falls according to his or her credentials. Thats why so many religious texts are claimed to have been given by dictation by an angeltheres no arguing with that! Instead, Jesus does not write a book.
It is also important to remember that not only did Jesus not write a book, but neither did Matthew, Mark, Luke and John simply sit down to write a biography of Jesus. Textual criticism shows that the gospel writers were not doing their own work. They relied on earlier written sources and earlier oral sources from the community. Matthew, Mark, Luke and John wrote the gospels, but they did not create the gospels as a single modern author might. Instead they were like editorsgathering together the various stories which were circulating in the community and compiling them to create the gospels as we have them. Again, it is important to stress how unique these documents are. They are not the creation of any one individual, but the record of the stories and accounts and memories from many individuals.
This varied background gives a remarkable reliability to the gospels. Instead of one single recordlike a single biographyof the life of Christ we have not only four different versions (totally unheard of for any character in ancient history) but those four versions themselves are compilations of the accounts of many individuals who were present at the events. This multiplicity of sources adds an astounding level of veracity to the gospels since those many different sources check and balance and correct one another.
The community origin of the gospels makes them completely unique documents in human history. Nowhere else do we have four accounts of a character from ancient history written within sixty years of his death, compiled not by one person but compiled out of the community experience. These documents are not compiled by a single historian who is prone not only to bias, but to factual errors and misunderstandings. Because the gospels come out of this lived and shared experience they are far more likely to be accounts of what really happened. If something blatantly false were written the community would have corrected it.
In addition to this we must consider the Jewish context of the early church. A strict memorization of the Scriptures is part of the Jewish tradition. Jewish boys even today for their Bar Mitzvah have to memorize parts of the Scripture and are checked for it word by word. In the first century, with the scarcity of manuscripts, boys were taught to memorize the entire Old Testament, and to recite the accounts of the history of their people word for word.
It is easy to dismiss oral tradition as some kind of game of Chinese whispersin which the story is exaggerated more and more by each person who re-tells is. While this is understandable from our point of view, it displays ignorance of the Jewish culture and tradition where oral traditionrather than being unreliablewas considered more reliable than written tradition. Written manuscriptsthe argument goescan be altered and edited. Anyone can write a written manuscript and say whatever he wants. Written manuscripts can be lost and destroyed. The oral tradition, on the other hand, is a living, active part of the whole community. The teacher and the whole class gathered together as the boy recited the ancient stories word for word. They corrected him to make sure he did not leave anything out or add anything. This was, after all, the Word of God, and therefore to be treated with utmost sacredness and care. This was part of a living sacred tradition, and has been shown, rather than being an unreliable way of transmitting a tradition to be a very reliable way indeed.
The stories of Jesus Christ were told and re-told within this Jewish context by Jews who were the first Christians. The worship of the first century Christians was an outgrowth of the Jewish religion and culture, so they would have had the same respect and care for the new sacred tradition of their Lord as they had for the earlier sacred stories and writings.
Critics of the historicity of the gospels like to talk in vague terms of the mythological elements which crept into the gospel account. However, no one actually quotes chapter and verse. That is because there are no mythological elements. Those who talk about mythological elements are clearly ignorant not only of the gospels themselves, but of what mythology actually consists of. What they usually mean by mythological elements is the supernatural. The gospels do indeed contain supernatural elements, but these supernatural experiencesangels appearing to people or miracles happening are recounted as real events that were recorded because they were real events and therefore all the more astonishing. The supernatural elements presuppose belief in a supernatural dimension.
Within a faith community (whether it is first century Palestine or twenty first century America) supernatural experiences are part of the world view. That is, after all, what religion is all about. That religious documents record supernatural experiences is no more unusual than a sports page recording the football scores.
The supernatural elements in a story do not demand religious belief, nor do they demand belief that the supernatural events took place just as said, nor do they demand assent to the whole premise of the supernatural. What they do demand is that the reader accept that they are the record of a real experience by a historical person. So, for example, one may doubt that Jesus walked on the water. One may come up with all sorts of other explanations. However, one must accept that Peter and the other disciples experienced Jesus walking on the water. What actually happened may be open for question and debate, but the one thing we know happened is that twelve men perceived another man to be walking to them on the waves.
When confronted with the accounts of the miraculous we have to ask ourselves why anyone would fabricate a tale which is so obviously incredible. What motivation would there be, for instance, to fabricate a story of Jesus walking on the water? Why would someone make up a story like that? Why would twelve other men corroborate the tale if it had not happened? The only possible motivation for fabricating a story would be that more people would join their religion. But that religion didnt do anything for them. It did not bring them fame or fortune or power or glory. On the contrary, it only brought them ridicule, persecution, torture, hardship and eventually death.
Surely a person who was fabricating talesor even allowing them to be exaggerated would not have the moral fortitude to then die an agonizing death for those lies.
The record of supernatural events does not negate, therefore, the historical claims of a document. I might tell you the story of how our family car avoided a head on collision because the two cars de materialized in a supernatural way. One may dispute the miracle, say that there must be another explanation and find that element of the story incredible, but the mere fact of the supernatural element of the story does not negate the fact that we experienced something otherwise inexplicable, and that the story we told was essentially, therefore truethat is to sayit was a true account of something we experienced. The existence of miracles in a story do not, therefore, render the whole story unhistorical.
Let us turn again to the question of historicity of the documents themselves. Critics point to the discrepancies of detail between the gospel accounts. Here a character is missing, there an incident happened a bit differentlyhere there is confusion about who a character is related to. Here the chronology differs between one account and another. This is put forward as a criticism of the historicity of the accounts, but when this is examined more thoughtfully it actually proves the authenticity of the gospels. Wouldnt it be much more suspicious if there were four different accounts of the same events and they matched perfectly? Then we would surely conclude that there was a work of fabrication and serious editing going on. Instead we find four different account which essentially agree, but which differ in detail. This is exactly what you would expect from four different perspectives from four different witnesses of the same event. Not everybody sees everything. Details slip, some things are observed by one person and not by another. Witness one says the suspect wore a red hat. Witness two says it was a pink hat with a red band. The detail differs and because it does it feels right that both persons are probably eyewitnesses.
How does this criteria stand up next to modern critical historical practice? What you have in the gospels are documents recording a multiplicity of eyewitness events recorded by four different editors within thirty years of the events themselves. What other historical figure or event from ancientor even medieval history can claim such a wide range of balancing, correcting and corroborating witnesses? None. In fact the standard for checking and balancing the historical claims is far higher and wider in the gospels than you would have for many universally accepted historical events and characters.
It is true that the gospels do not measure up to the standards of modern critical historical practice. But they do not purport to be modern, scientifically verifiable documents. They are the records of real events experienced by real people within the faith community following Jesus Christ. One of the key elements of this communitys belief was that astounding events really did happen within human history, and the gospel stories are the record of those events.
Whether you choose to believe them or not is another matter altogether.
Maybe it's like someone like you saying that, but the similarity ends there. If you have to use Martians showing up as an argument, your point pretty much ends there.
Not at all.
It shows how absure the Papist argument really is.
It’s important to focus on which facts are essential or necessary and which are not.
If two witnesses don’t present the same testimony on fringe elements (one witness reports red hat, 2nd witness omits the hat) but both assert the event occurred, we should consider the possibility that discrepancy regarding fringe elements are irrelevant. The accuracy—that the primary event actually occurred—is upheld.
Thanks for the ping. Very good post; very good article; very good thread. BTTT!
Not trying to reopen any scraps, but I've seen this obscure Luther quote used a lot here by Catholics and, oddly enough, there is NEVER an attribution give for it other Ta everyone is to assume it's something Luther actually said. Without a context for it, I don't think it is fair to toss it out and presume all arguments about Scripture should grind to a halt over what Luther said about who "gave" us Scripture or who is authorized with telling us what Scripture really says. I did a little searching and found this article about that quote:
From http://beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com/search?q=We+are+compelled+to+concede+to+the+Papists+that+they+have+the+Word+of+God%2C, we learn:
First, thank the Roman Catholic using this quote for providing a reference. Normally, the citation given will simply be Luthers commentary on John 16. Now this is not totally correct- the citation is from Luthers Sermons on John 16 [LW 24], not a commentary. Luther preached on John 14-16 after March 14, 1537, finishing in either June or July of 1537. The sermons were taken down and edited by Caspar Cruciger. Luther actually credits Cruciger for writing the book. In other words, Luther didnt sit down and write an exegetical commentary on John. Rather, this quote was the result of preaching, and someone else writing it down the way he heard it.
2. Locate a Translation: Do Catholics Actually Read Luther?
The question that I always consider when reading Roman Catholics quote Luther, is if theyve actually read Luther. This quote serves as a great opportunity to find out. The quote as typically cited, We are obliged to yield many things to the Papists--that with them is the Word of God, which we received from them; otherwise we should have known nothing at all about it is not the translation from the standard English 55 volume version of Luthers Works [Saint Louis: Concordia Publishing House]. Nor is it from the earlier small English set of Luthers Works (known as the Philadelphia or Holman edition of the Works of Martin Luther), because that set doesnt contain Luthers Sermons on John 16. So where did the Roman Catholic citing this quote get it from? My guess is they cant tell you, because they havent actually read Luthers Sermons on John 16. They have this quote which they've read somewhere, and thought it made their point. It's probably the result of cut-and-paste, not research.
3. Put the Quote in a Context: What Does Luther Really Mean?
In expounding on John 16, Luther discusses how those who call themselves the True Church actually became corrupt and began persecuting true believers- just as the Jewish leadership did to the Old Testament prophets (like Jeremiah). Luther says,
Today the pope and his crowd cry out against us that they are the church, since they have received Baptism, the Sacrament, and Holy Writ from the apostles and are their successors. They say: Where else should Gods people be than where His name is praised, and where the successors and heirs of His apostles are to be found? Surely the Turks, the Tartars, and the heathen cannot be His people. Therefore we must be His people; otherwise it will be altogether impossible to find a people of God on earth. Consequently, he who rebels against us resists the Christian Church and Christ Himself. [LW 24:303].
But Luther insists they who make this claim are just like the Old Testament Jewish leadership. They claimed to be Gods people (and at one time they were), but because of sin and corruption, they actually persecuted Gods true people. They did not heed the words of the prophets. Luther notes that the plight of the true Christian in such a circumstance is exceedingly difficult. He says,
This will surely offend and repel anyone who is not armed with different weapons and different strength, who listens only to such opinions of the most eminent and influential people on earth. You are a heretic and an apostle of the devil, You are preaching against Gods people and the church, yes, against God Himself. For it is exceedingly difficult to deprive them of this argument and to talk them out of it." [LW 24:304].
Then, comes the citation in question:
Yes, we ourselves find it difficult to refute it, especially since we concedeas we mustthat so much of what they say is true: that the papacy has Gods Word and the office of the apostles, and that we have received Holy Scripture, Baptism, the Sacrament, and the pulpit from them. What would we know of these if it were not for them? Therefore faith, the Christian Church, Christ, and the Holy Spirit must also be found among them. What business have I, then, to preach against them as a pupil preaching against his teachers? Then there come rushing into my heart thoughts like these: Now I see that I am in error. Oh, if only I had never started this and had never preached a word! For who dares oppose the church, of which we confess in the Creed: I believe in a holy Christian Church, etc.? Now I find this church in the papacy too. It follows, therefore, that if I condemn this church, I am excommunicated, rejected, and damned by God and all the saints. [LW 24:304].
Is Luther conceding an infallible church gave us the canon? Absolutely not. Is Luther saying an infallible extra-biblical tradition produced the Canon? Absolutely Not. Luther is simply saying that he learned about the Scriptures, Baptism, and the Pulpit, etc. from the Church of his day, in the same way the Prophets were born into a society in which the religious structure of their day was functioning, and gave the Old Testament people a religious context to live in. The visible church indeed promulgated the Scriptures and Christian doctrine. Who can deny this? But simply because they did so, does not mean the visible church in Rome infallibly declared the canon of Scripture.
Luther held that the Church was God's hand maid and servant. It does not create God's Word, God's Word creates the Church. As the servant of the Word, it gives the Word to the body of Christ, His people. Indeed, who would know God's Word if it were not for the Church continually upholding it and pointing God's people to it in each generation? One should be able to sense the thrust of Luther's argument: when the visible Church goes bad, going against it is an awesome and fearful undertaking. The Church is God's handmaid. It is to protect and promulgate the Word- but what happens when the servant disobeys the Master? Who can condemn the handmaid and not be fearful?
The quote as cited by Roman Catholics has nothing to do with an infallible Church declaring the contents of Scripture. The quote isn't discussing canonicity. The quote isn't discussing if Rome gave us an infallible list of biblical books. Rather, the quote is part of an argument based on Old Testament Israel persecuting Gods true people, and the Roman Catholic Church persecuting the Reformers. This is made clear as Luther continues. Old Testament Judaism had God's law. does this mean they were the ones who infallibly declared what that law was?
But what is now our defense? And what is the ground on which we can hold our own against such offense and continue to defy those people? It is nothing else than the masterly statement St. Paul employs in Rom. 9:7: Not all are children of Abraham because they are his descendants. Not all who bear the name are Israelites; or, as the saying goes: Not all who carry long knives are cooks. Thus not all who lay claim to the title church are the church. There is often a great difference between the name and the reality. The name is general. All are called Gods people, children of Abraham, Christs disciples and members; but this does not mean that they all are what the name signifies. For the name church includes many scoundrels and rascals who refused to obey Gods Word and acted contrary to it. Yet they were called heirs and successors of the holy patriarchs, priests, and prophets. To be sure, they had Gods Law and promise, the temple, and the priesthood. In fact, they should have been Gods people; but they practiced idolatry so freely under the cloak of the name church that God was forced to say: This shall no longer be My temple and priesthood. My people shall no longer be My people. But to those who are not My people it shall be said: You are sons of the living God (Hos. 1:10; 2:23). [LW 24:304].
Luther realizes that even within the corrupt papacy, the true church exists:
Thus we are also compelled to say: I believe and am sure that the Christian Church has remained even in the papacy. On the other hand, I know that most of the papists are not the Christian Church, even though they give everyone the impression that they are. Today our popes, cardinals, and bishops are not Gods apostles and bishops; they are the devils. And their people are not Gods people; they are the devils. And yet some of the papists are true Christians, even though they, too, have been led astray, as Christ foretold in Matt. 24:24. But by the grace of God and with His help they have been preserved in a wonderful manner. [LW 24:305].
In the meantime we adhere to the distinction made here by Christ and do not regard as Christendom those who do not hold truly and absolutely to what Christ taught, gave, and ordained, no matter how great, holy, and learned they may be. We tell them that they are the devils church. On the other hand, we want to acknowledge and honor as the true bride of Christ those who remain faithful to His pure Word and have no other comfort for their hearts than this Savior, whom they have received and confessed in Baptism and in whose name they have partaken of the Sacrament. These are the true church. It is not found in only one place, as, for example, under the pope; but it exists over the entire earth wherever Christians are found. Outwardly they may be scattered here and there, but they meet in the words of the Creed: I believe in God the Father Almighty, and in Jesus Christ, our Lord, who was born, suffered, and died for us on the cross. In like manner, they pray: Our Father who art in heaven. They share the same Spirit, Word, and Sacrament. They all lead the same holy and blessed life, each one according to his calling, whether father, mother, master, servant, etc. Thus whatever we preach, believe, and live, this they all preach, believe, and live. Physically separated and scattered here and there throughout the wide world, we are nevertheless gathered and united in Christ.[LW 24:309].
From these paragraphs, it should be obvious what Luther is driving at. It is the job of the True Church- those who believe and trust only in Christ's righteousness by faith, to call the visible church to repentance. The visible church will claim to be God speaking. The visible church may claim to be that authority which determined the Canon. But if the visible church is in rebellion against God, it is the task of the true Christian to point her back to her master.
Though I am not a Lutheran, I AM interested in finding out the truth and, more often than not, when Catholics "quote" Martin Luther at all it is usually out of context or, in some cases I have found, completely fabricated - something he never really said at all. This link http://beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com/2005_07_01_archive.html is a good source for finding such quotes and researching if they can legitimately be used or not.
That often is the case, and thank you for providing the link to Swan's extensive resources.
And as often pointed out, even being the instrument and steward of Holy Writ - and even the people through whom Christ came - (Rm. 3:2; 9:4,5) does not make, or require, them to be the infallible interpreters of it. Writings were recognized as being Divine,(Lk. 24:44) truth was preserved and men of God established as being so without an assuredly infallible office. (Mt. 23:2)
And God raised up imperfect men of God to correct the presumption of those who, like Rome, presumed a level of authority that was more than what was written, and thus faith was preserved among the remnant, and believed on an Itinerant but perfect Preacher whose authority they rejected, but which was established upon Scriptural substantiation, in text and in power.
And thus the church itself began in dissent from those who sat in the seat of Moses, and thus the church continues as God raises up imperfect men who speak truth to presumed power, preaching the gospel that effects manifest regeneration, in contrast to its institutionalized counterpart.
To God be the glory.
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