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To: Dutchboy88
Quite a difference between your chess-master becoming well acquainted with you in order to guess your moves accurately and God.

I even acknowledged such. But you in your haste to call me wrong missed the point.

Quite a difference between your chess-master becoming well acquainted with you in order to guess your moves accurately and God. You have overlooked the passages which tell you that God is executing your moves.

...God is executing my moves? Wow. Do you realize what you've said?
You've said, quite literally, that God is performing/doing my actions.
But then your posts make this quite clear that is what you mean.

Applying that sentiment makes God, quite monstrous, not loving or Just or Good.
Turn to Genesis Chapter 4, We have God rejecting Cain's offering, and then warning Cain about sin that "lieth at the door", then Cain murders Abel.

Now, according to your statements, not only does God reject Cain's offering, but He also kills Abel [via Cain, whose actions God executes] and then punishes Cain for it. You have a lot of gall to claim that as being the sort of character of a Righteous God.

You may wish to read the rest of the story in order to put this in its context. The so-called Lord's Prayer is within the so-called Sermon on the mount.

Nope. You are wrong (at least partially); Jesus replied with the Lord's Prayer after his disciples asked him to teach them to pray. Now if that is the correct way to pray, then obviously if the subject were to come up later it be answered in the same manner.

He was praying in a certain place, and when he ceased, one of his disciples said to him, "Lord, teach us to pray, as John taught his disciples." And he said to them, "When you pray, say:

‘Father, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Give us each day our daily bread; and forgive us our sins, for we ourselves forgive every one who is indebted to us; and lead us not into temptation"’ [Luke 11:1-4].

Again, notice, no Scriptures...just your philosophy and "logic".

*shrug* -- When I give you scripture you either ignore it or say that I am utterly wrong; why should I then waste God's word on you?
(Oh, come on -- that one's even a give me! [2 Timothy 3:16])

But, you continue to ignore passages such as:
Amos 3:6, "If a trumpet is blown in a city will not the people tremble? If a calamity occurs in a city has not the Lord done it?"

I have not said that God is not in control of things/events. You unceasingly conflate sovereignty and free-will's exclusion.

Daniel 4:35, "And all the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing, But He does according to His will IN the host of Heaven and the inhabitants of earth; And no one can ward off His hand or say to Him, 'What hast thou done?'"

And who can say to God "What have you done?"

And, this message is everywhere in His Word

So is the concept of accountability; which if free-will does not exist as you posit, is rubbish:
Matthew 12:36 -- But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken.
Romans 14:12 -- So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.
Deuteronomy 24:16 -- Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin.
All of these sound really stupid if it is God executing the actions that these are punished for.

84 posted on 07/19/2012 7:13:14 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: OneWingedShark
"So is the concept of accountability; which if free-will does not exist as you posit, is rubbish:"

Herein lies the central error in your claim of free will.

"Do you realize what you've said?"

Yes, I believe so. And, I believe I have identified what you cannot accept. If Solomon is correct, "Man plans his ways, but God directs his steps."

85 posted on 07/20/2012 8:46:57 AM PDT by Dutchboy88
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