Archbishop Chaput Closes Fortnight: What We Must Render Unto God and Unto Caesar

Catholic Online ^ | 7/5/12 | Deacon Keith Fournier

[marshmallow]

Screwed up the link.

Click HERE for the rest of the story.

[marshmallow]

See post #21.

[GreyFriar]

My thanks to both of you for the proper link. I shall share it.

[rollo tomasi]

“Your objections seem to be based upon a premise that Catholics are outsiders to the political process and do not pay taxes. One in four Americans is Catholic and as such have significant input into the policies and spending decisions of this country.”

No, has nothing to do with Catholicism, but everything to do with force, out of control bureaucracies, and perversions that promote dependency upon the system. This is not charity but coercion affecting many beliefs systems from Roman Catholics to agnostic. All individuals along with future generations are constrained by improper management of funds from a neutral power not giving a whiff of the intentions or "good faith" from the electorate. Government should be controlled and starved; not eventually evolving into a bastardized version of a would-be benevolent power seeking to cure all physical ills.

The proper action would be to limit government to the point where we direct our own resources where the individual wants them to go. The social justice racket just makes Christianity look like a modest looking prostitute. All prim and proper, but willing to be devoured by the beast that grows big enough to eventually over power and corrupt the core beliefs in exchange for resources.

[GreyFriar]

Archbishop Chaput’s homily is worth reading. It also reminded me of the actual meaning of “render....”

The proper link is in posts 18 and 21, the link in the article leads to the Shroud of Turin story from a couple of days ago.

[Salvation]

Here's some history on the Fortnight for Freedom.

Archbishop Chaput Closes Fortnight: What We Must Render Unto God and Unto Caesar
Government cannot take away true freedom, Archbishop Chaput teaches
Repair my house: renewing the roots of religious liberty
Rally opposes government intervention in religious matters
Novena for Religious Freedom for the United States of America (Prayer)

FREEDOM! US Catholic Church Rolls Out Major Offensive Against Obama’s Attacks on Religious Liberty
Opening Mass for the Fortnight for Freedom, Thursday 7PM ET
Fortnight for Freedom! (6/21-7/4)
Fortnight for Freedom
Group funded by George Soros poised to attack US Bishops for the “Fortnight for Freedom”
Archbishop [Lori]: 'Fortnight' about religious freedom, not politics
Religious Freedom and the Love of God
Bishops, That is a Pretty Nice Tax Exemption You Have There. Wouldn’t Want Anything Bad ...
Fortnight for Freedom
Baptist Leader Endorses Catholic Campaign

[mware]

I drive 45 minutes to get to a priest who is not afraid to be honest to his parish.

More than once he has told us, I love you all dearly, but I will not go to hell for you.

[zot]

Thanks for the ping. I thought his homily was a rather mild and theological response to the present government attacks on Christianity in general and Catholicism in specific.

[SuziQ]

You seem to be confusing an opinion of a Pope with an actual infallible doctrine of the Church. When a Pope issues a teaching paper, or a Document, Catholics need to consider what he's teaching, but it doesn't mean he's teaching in an infallible manner, which would require our following as a full teaching. That requires not only the Pope, but the Bishops of the world agreeing on a teaching. There are really only a few of those.

If it's not an infallible teaching, Catholics of Good Will can disagree on it.

[Natural Law]

“We live in a time that calls for sentinels and public witness. Every Christian in every era faces the same task. But you and I are responsible for this moment. Today. Now. We need to “speak out,” not only for religious liberty and the ideals of the nation we love, but for the sacredness of life and the dignity of the human person – in other words, for the truth of what it means to be made in the image and likeness of God."

"We need to be witnesses of that truth not only in word, but also in deed. In the end, we’re missionaries of Jesus Christ, or we’re nothing at all. And we can’t share with others what we don’t live faithfully and joyfully ourselves."

"When we leave this Mass today, we need to render unto Caesar those things that bear his image. But we need to render ourselves unto God — generously, zealously, holding nothing back. To the extent we let God transform us into his own image, we will – by the example of our lives – fulfill our duty as citizens of the United States, but much more importantly, as disciples of Jesus Christ.”

– Archbishop Charles Chaput, homily closing the Fortnight for Freedom, 4 July 2012.

[from occupied ga]

You seem to be confusing an opinion of a Pope with an actual infallible doctrine of the Church

You are deliberately misinterpreting what I said. What one hears in Catholic newspapers, from the pulpit, etc. is a constant barrage of socialism from the Catholic leadership of the US church.

Now YOU may think that what comes out of the church administration ie the USCCB and the parish priests isn't "official church teaching" and technically you MIGHT even be right, but what is it that Catholics hear day in and day out? The endless support for redistribution ala Marx. So when 300 catholics sitting in a mass hear a priest give a sermon on the right of the poor to material goods, health care, etc. how many of them think "this isn't the official stand of the church?" I would venture to say none. However wrong the endless flow of socialism that comes from the USCCB and down to the parishes and out into the congregations it is given the weight of official chuch teaching by virtue of the source. Something that every one of the posters on this thread are no doubt aware of.

Or to put it another way when the church leadership says "We need to provide goods to the poor," only a handful are going to say to themselves this isn't the official teaching of the church. Most will consider the source and say this is the voice of the church.

[from occupied ga]

I appreciate unintentional irony as provided by your post.

[from occupied ga]

I'll bet you've never read QUOD APOSTOLICI MUNERIS or DIUTURNUM or LIBERTAS PRAESTANTISSIMUM, ad infinitum.

You would be absolutely right, and furthermore I never intend to, and more to the point neither do the vast majority of catholics. If I or anyone else has to dig into latin communications to get what you consider to be the official church stand, then it isn't going to happen. When the visible church hierarchy ie the usccb and the parish priests who dutifully regurgitate the same philosophy come out with their endless support of redistributionism, then to me and 99.99% of other catholics this is the official church stance regardless of what you might think from having read something that probably no more than a couple of thousand catholics in the usa have read. You remind me of the posters who insist that Virgil Goode should get the Republican nomination because he's a true constitutionalist. Technically you might be right, but the reality is that the navel gazers speak with the force of being the church leadership and people consider them to be the official voice of the church.

Actually only the obtuse would fail to recognize that the USCCB has the weight of being the church leadership in the US behind it, and only the obtuse would insist that their drivel has no effect on the bulk of catholics.

[Natural Law]

"When the visible church hierarchy ie the usccb and the parish priests who dutifully regurgitate the same philosophy come out with their endless support of redistributionism, then to me and 99.99% of other catholics this is the official church stance regardless of what you might think from having read something that probably no more than a couple of thousand catholics in the usa have read."

It is not socialism when the Catholic Church, or any church, reminds us that as Christians we have an duty to help the sick, the suffering, and the needy.

Peace be with you

[from occupied ga]

It is not socialism when the Catholic Church, or any church, reminds us that as Christians we have an duty to help the sick, the suffering, and the needy

You need to actually read the whole "pastoral letter" and see if it's voluntary charity or forced redistribution being urged. SO when you want to make a RELEVANT comment get back to me or not. I detest sanctimony.

[SuziQ]

Or to put it another way when the church leadership says "We need to provide goods to the poor," only a handful are going to say to themselves this isn't the official teaching of the church. Most will consider the source and say this is the voice of the church.

Maybe it's just me, but if I hear those words in a sermon at Mass, I don't assume that it means "GOVERNMENT needs to provide goods to the poor". I assume it means that Jesus is calling ME, PERSONALLY, to help those who cannot help themselves, as all Christians are called to do.

[from occupied ga]

, I don't assume that it means "GOVERNMENT needs to provide goods to the poor

Again you're taking it out of context. if I heard this OUT OF THE CONTEXT OF THIS THREAD I MIGHT agree with you, but read "Economic Justice for All" in the link in post 5 and tell me whether you think the church is urging charity or government redistribution.

[Natural Law]

"You need to actually read the whole "pastoral letter" and see if it's voluntary charity or forced redistribution being urged."

I have read it and it is not about forced anything. It could make the basis for an acceptable GOP platform. I would encourage you to read or reread it and concentrate on the following paragraphs:

"This document is not a technical blueprint for economic reform. Rather, it is an attempt to foster a serious moral analysis leading to a more just economy."

"Catholic social teaching does not require absolute equality in the distribution of income and wealth. Some degree of inequality is not only acceptable, but may be considered desirable for economic and social reasons, such as the need for incentives and the provision of greater rewards for greater risks."

"The first line of attack against poverty must be to build and sustain a healthy economy that provides employment opportunities at just wages for all adults who are able to work. Poverty is intimately linked to the issue of employment."

"Self-help efforts among the poor should be fostered by programs and policies in both the private and public sectors. We believe that an effective way to attack poverty is through programs that are small in scale, locally based, and oriented toward empowering the poor to become self-sufficient."

"Policies and programs at all levels should support the strength and stability of families, especially those adversely affected by the economy."

"Public assistance programs should be designed to assist recipients, wherever possible, to become self-sufficient through gainful employment."

"The United States cannot be the sole savior of the developing world, nor are Third World countries entirely innocent with respect to their own failures or totally helpless to achieve their own destinies. Many of these countries will need to initiate positive steps to promote and sustain development and economic growth—streamline bureaucracies, account for funds, plan reasonable programs, and take further steps toward empowering their people."

"We have outlined this moral vision as a guide to all who seek to be faithful to the Gospel in their daily economic decisions and as a challenge to transform the economic arrangements that shape our lives and our world. These arrangements embody and communicate social values, and therefore have moral significance both in themselves and in their effects. Christians, like all people, must be concerned about how the concrete outcomes of their economic activity serve human dignity; they must assess the extent to which the structures and practices of the economy support or undermine their moral vision.

"Others argue that the capitalist system is inherently inequitable and therefore contradictory to the demands of Christian morality, for it is based on acquisitiveness, competition, and self-centered individualism. They assert that capitalism is fatally flawed and must be replaced by a radically different system that abolishes private property, the profit motive, and the free market. Catholic social teaching has traditionally rejected these ideological extremes because they are likely to produce results contrary to human dignity and economic justice. Starting with the assumption that the economy has been created by human beings and can be changed by them, the Church works for improvement in a variety of economic and political contexts; but it is not the Church's role to create or promote a specific new economic system."

Peace be with you

[from occupied ga]

it is not about forced anything. It could make the basis for an acceptable GOP platform
....
Self-help efforts among the poor should be fostered by programs and policies in both the private and public sectors.
...
Church works for improvement in a variety of economic and political contexts

If you're working in a political context you're looking for a governmental solution. You live in a different universe. Either that or you are practicing selective blindness. I vote C both of the above.

[Natural Law]

"Catholic social teaching does not require absolute equality in the distribution of income and wealth. Some degree of inequality is not only acceptable, but may be considered desirable for economic and social reasons, such as the need for incentives and the provision of greater rewards for greater risks."

90+ pages and those two excerpts are what you are using to indict Catholic social teaching. If you believe that the government has no role in establishing or maintaining a social safety net or that Catholics have no right to expect a moral component to the policies of their government you are living in an alternate reality.

Peace be with you