Posted on 07/03/2012 11:28:20 AM PDT by jesus4life
GOD knows who GOD chooses.
GOD chooses who HE wants.
If you are GOD's then nothing will seperate you from GOD.
Please pray the LORD's PRAYER and please read:
ROMANS 8:31-39
31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?
32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies.
34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written:
“For Your sake we are killed all day long; We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.”[a]
37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us.
38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come,
39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
GOD BLESS US ALL,
Jesus4life
Good sound theology...except for appending the so-called “Lord’s Prayer”. Notice where in the story line of the Bible this prayer occurs. The Sermon on the Mount is a thorough-going description of the Law (continuing through Matt. 7:27). Why is this important? Because during this amplification of the Law Jesus also said, “You are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.” Do we think this is the Gospel of grace? Not hardly.
The cross had not yet come. Jesus’ exposition of the Law astounded the listeners as impossible...and it is. It was intended to crush self-effort. No amount of self-developed righteousness will meet these requirements. And, just as the rich young ruler gave up when told the true weight of the Law, there is no hope for man...unless God chooses the man (your original point). Notice Matt. 19:26. What man cannot do, God will do for His elect.
When you mix the exposition of the requirements of Law with Paul’s remarks about God’s election you risk confusing the audience. That is, do you really believe that you want God to forgive you EXACTLY as you forgive others? Really? I want Him to forgive me beyond my lack of forgiveness. That is the Gospel Paul illuminated in Romans. And, you are correct...If God chooses you then nothing will separate you from God.
We have to take the Scriptures as they come to us, unfolding, developing, clarifying as they go. You will notice that most Roman Catholics hover on the Gospels, and have some disdain for Paul. This is because they can sense a change in the picture, an unwelcome change from “you must do” (Gospels) to a “you cannot do, God will do it for His elect” (Epistles). With your remarks, the water is muddied. But, let the story unfold. Your remarks are true, but quoting the so-called Lord’s Prayer to support them confuses the issue.
“In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.”
I agree with you.
Your point about Catholic disdain for Paul is interesting. I can count on one hand the number of times I ever listened to O’Reilly on the radio, but one of the few times I tuned in Bill was berating a caller for referencing something in one of the Pauline epistles. He pompously lectured her on the superiority of the gospels over and above the epistles. He was so off-base that it would have been funny if it hadn’t been so sad.
Amen!
To all,
Praise the LORD. We are all at different levels of faith, but for those that say they love the LORD, want to be obedient, and still have something to say, please don’t forget the way we must go about it in order to keep order;
MATTHEW 18:15-17
15“If your brother sins against you,b go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over.
16But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’c
17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
GOD BLESS US ALL,
Jesus4life
O’Reilly, as you pointed out, is a stauch RC and as such will ordinarily speak with heavy “Law laden” tones. The Gospels are superior in every way for a Catholic, and each “homily” given is always from somewhere in those four books. They give most weight to Jesus’ words even though the Father’s words (in the OT) would (under the same assumptions) would be just as crucial. But, IMHO, this derives from a sincere effort to produce a desired, but unattainable, self-righteousness. To be at the mercy of God, to be left as either among the elect or among those created for destruction, is simply an unacceptable situation. Jesus’ remarks sound like they can change this.
Paul, unfortunately (?), clarifies that there is no hope...if God does not elect. That is what the entire letter to the Italians is about. When he says, “You will say to me then, ‘How can He still find fault, for who can resist His will?’” Paul is setting out the crux of the matter. We are really at His mercy and waiting to see if we are among the elect. God really is the Potter, and we the clay. He can make one for honor and one for destruction. This is distasteful to a “religionist”. They insist that the choice be presented and the man be allowed to be the “chooser”. It is unacceptable to the O’Reillys for God to decide who is rescued.
You will notice a significant difference in the way RCs use the term “grace”. If one listens closely, it is not an “unmerited favor” given to an undeserving sinner, but a “super juice” granted to the deserving, obedient observer of Roman Catholic tradition...the doer of the Law, the fulfiller of the sacraments. This difference in nomenclature places biblical epistleary theology at odds with their tradition. The RCs demand control (the keys) and it is reflected in all of their positions.
During the Reformation, some teachers read “...the rest of the story.” in the Bible and discovered that Jesus was teaching the Law most of His three years, (Recall the Sermon on the Mount, “...for this is the Law and the Prophets”). When the blood was shed, the curtain was torn, the Law was disappearing, and grace was shed abroad. The Gentiles (non-Jews) were included in the “New Covenant” in His blood (the cross) and the whole world changed. This is what Paul exposits...but the religionist hates to hear.
Thanks for the info on O’Reilly. Forgive me rambiling on a bit.
Help me with this...
You quote Matt. 18?
I am always aghast at the ease with which protestantism utterly and completely rejects Christ, and the disdain with which protestantism views the Gospels.
Clearly, protestantism IS NOT Christianity. It is “paulianity” ... a bizarre and false religion indeed. It invents for itself a false “gospel” (a truly satanic deception) of complete irresponsibility from St. Paul’s letters, and prefers its own invention to the Gospel of Jesus Christ Himself.
Check you mail.
GOD BLESS US ALL,
Jesus4life
Just what is the “Gospel of Jesus Christ Himself”, if you don’t mind my asking.
Clearly, protestantism IS NOT Christianity. It is “paulianity” ... a bizarre and false religion indeed. It invents for itself a false “gospel” (a truly satanic deception) of complete irresponsibility from St. Paul’s letters, and prefers its own invention to the Gospel of Jesus Christ Himself."
Just wanted to reprint this en toto so that the typical RC response can be viewed. Someday, you may wish to read the entire Book we call the Bible. In there you may find the words of life...if He has called you out of the darkness. Let go of the false traditions of men, cling to Jesus alone...if you can.
**When GOD chooses you, no one can take you away from GOD.**
Wrong.
Jesus chose Judas Iscariot, and the devil took him away from the Lord.
The Gospels have the words of Christ in them. I’ll take them over the letters of St. Paul any day.
Is there some reason you do not like the words of Jesus?
I find that if you ask this of a RC, you will get, "Keep the sacraments, trust Christ (as evidenced by keeping the sacraments), and keep the sacraments." Did I mention, "Keep the sacraments"? Also, pray to Mary, believe in papal inerrancy ex cathedra, do penance, get ready for pergatory, pay indulgences (making a comeback), and try to be holy.
If you ask a person who has read the entire Bible, they will tell you that the Gospel of Jesus is the good news that He has elected some before the foundation of the world to trust Him, and Him alone, for their rescue. He has adopted them, forgiven them, clothed them in His righteousness (not their own), and is sanctifying them until the day of their final redemption. They are safe in His hands, filled with His Spirit, still failing as humans but looking to Him for righteousness, not themselves. Notice how much He does versus they do? Jesus does for us what we cannot do for ourselves.
Judas was always gone.
John 17:11-13
11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me,[a] that they may be one as We are. 12 While I was with them in the world,[b] I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept;[c] and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. 13 But now I come to You, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have My joy fulfilled in themselves.
Is there some reason you do not like the words of Jesus?
This is as silly as the guy who has written the book demonstrating from Scripture that Sola Scriptura is wrong. Jesus said, "No man comes to the Me unless the Father draws him. And, I will raise him up on the last day." Unless you are a universalist, some of the human race has not been "drawn" and those who have not cannot come to Christ, irrespective of what they think is happening to them.
Recall, Jesus also said, "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.'" At least there will be some who don't realize that it is more important for Jesus to know them than it is for them to know Him (and do all kinds of religious things). I love the words of Jesus...in context.
**Recall, Jesus also said, “Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord,**
Notice it’s not St. Paul who will come to you on that day, but Christ!
LOL!
Bill O’Reilly is pro-homosexual agenda. Hardly the spokesperson for the Christian way of life.
I do find it interesting how many who defend the RCC, pay allegiance to Peter over Paul, but are not of Jewish origin.
Yet, Paul was the Apostle to the Gentiles, while Peter was an Apostle to the Jews. Go figure.
Well, I hope that this is not the case. But, if it happens then I deserve it. I find myself saying with Paul, that I want to be found not having a righteousness of my own, derived from law (doing good things), but be found in Him having a righteousness from God. What say you?
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