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The Mormonizing of America (BOOK EXCERPT, PT 3) [IF Lds lone true church, then are rest 'cultic?']
Christian Post.com (Book Stop Blog section) ^ | 2012 | Stephen Mansfield

Posted on 07/01/2012 8:34:57 AM PDT by Colofornian

The presidential race of Mitt Romney and the success of the Broadway musical The Book of Mormon have generated new interest in Mormonism. Stephen Mansfield's book The Mormonizing of America provides a careful study of this growing religion. The Book Stop blog is posting excerpts from the first two chapters of this book.

The Mormons and the Media

Nowhere in American society does this create an occasion of people talking past each other as when it comes to the media pursuing a prominent Mormon.

Reporters naturally want to find something controversial about this visible person, so they ask about holy underwear. But the Mormon won’t answer this question directly. He’s offended by the phrase “holy underwear”—it is properly called a “Temple garment”—and he won’t talk about Temple rituals in any case because they are far too sacred. Besides, betraying Temple rituals is forbidden.

Then the media switches to polygamy. This too gets side-stepped because the Church forbade polygamy long before this prominent Mormon was born and only a small percentage of Saints have ever been in plural marriages to begin with. There’s nothing to write about here.

Reporters then raise the treatment of blacks. This may get some play because the Latter-day Saints did not “get a revelation” about blacks being priests and permitted in the Temple until 1978. Even the Supreme Court moved toward equality faster than the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints! So the media can stir these waters a bit, but the change came forty-five years ago and everybody has admitted the Church was wrong and even African American Mormons will criticize the media if it does not report fairly where the Church is today.

Then there is abortion and homosexuality, but more than half the country is with the Mormons on this so there is nothing new to spin. There is some fun to be had with the Mormon anti-birth-control position, but this is old and not all Mormons accept it and it will only bring Mormon women to the cameras in a rage. Better to leave this alone too.

It also doesn’t work to bring up specific matters of doctrine. Press a political candidate on whether Jesus will touch down in Jackson County, Missouri, when he returns and the man either answers incorrectly or says he doesn’t know. Ask if he intends to be a god one day and he says his faith doesn’t make this clear. Ask if he thinks he will rule over planets and he laughs and says that some members of his faith believe this.

The man cannot be pinned down, though, and this is because Mormon doctrine is dangerous territory. It is always a bit—squishy. There is no creed. There are few if any LDS theologians. The clergy isn’t theologically trained. The people are usually only taught what is “faith promoting” so there are huge gaps in what they know. And in Mormonism there is nothing like the Roman Catholic “Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith”—no official voice, no department clarifying theology and whipping dissidents back into line. So the candidate moves deftly around the icebergs that reporters try to put in his way.

Then there are always conspiracy theories to pose about how much Salt Lake City controls a leading politician or how much money the church spends trying to turn elections their way. But no one knows for sure and there is such a mind meld between the Church and its prominent members that there is hardly need for the Church to even try to exert control. These Mormons all think so alike that nothing ever has to be said.

And this is where it usually stops. Because the media only knows Mormonism by its odd extremities, it exhausts its list of interesting topics quickly. The reporting becomes vapid. Religion moves from center stage. The fact that a CEO or a politician or a cabinet member or some other influential member of society might be a Mormon is no longer deemed important.

Because the media is focused on externals. Because the sordid burns out quickly. Because no one has thought to ask a Mormon what it really means to be a Mormon.

Yet when the Saints are approached in the light by which they see themselves—as the only earthly heirs of the ancient priesthood of Aaron and Melchizedek—then a new list of questions begins to emerge.

“Sir, your Church is offended when it is called a ‘cult.’ But if your Church sees itself as the ‘only true Church,’ possessors of the only true priesthood on earth, then don’t Mormons see every other religion in the world as some kind of cult?”

“Sir, if you are a Melchizedek Priest, have you ever prayed for anyone to be healed? Have they been? Have you ever seen angels? Can you confer the gifts of the Holy Spirit? Can you confer them on me?”

“Sir, are there prophets who speak to you regularly? Do you prophesy to others? What will you do if someone you revere as a prophet gives you a revelation about what you should do in a public office? How can you refuse it? How can you be sure it is or isn’t the true word of God?”

“Sir, if your Church has been given the keys to the only true Aaronic and Melchizedek Priesthoods on earth, then what does this say about the Jews? Are they deceived about who they are? And does becoming a Mormon literally change a person’s blood so they become the seed of Abraham, as Joseph Smith taught? And who exactly will be in control of Jerusalem when Jesus Christ returns?”

These, then, are questions nearer the meaning of Mormonism that the Saints themselves hold dear and these get us closer to understanding how an LDS politician or CEO or educator understands both his public life as well as his life in this world.

What the Mormon view of Mormonism also tells us is how we have to approach the faith. There is no Mormon systematic theology or final theological voice. The text of Mormonism is Mormon history. In fact, there is a direct connection between each major phase of the Mormon past and what most every Mormon believes and practices today. But the story has to be told and its meaning understood.

This has not been easy for most Americans. Not only is religion of any kind seldom taught in our schools, but Mormon history is such an odd creature that it requires a certain openness, a willingness to take seriously—even for a moment— a story our Mormon friends believe was begun by angels, powered by prophecy, sustained by miracles, and made heroic by men destined to be divine. This history, though, is the main text of the faith that has now reached critical mass in the United States and it is well worth considering for this reason alone.

___________________________________________________

Excerpted from The Mormonizing of America by Stephen Mansfield, © 2012.

Published by Worthy Publishing, a division of Worthy Media, Inc., Brentwood, TN. www.worthypublishing.com. Used by permission. Tell us what you thought of this excerpt on Twitter: #Mormonizing @WorthyPub


TOPICS: Other non-Christian; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics; Theology
KEYWORDS: antichristian; apostasy; inman; lds; mittromney; mormon
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To: Big Horn; Artcore; All
I know many Mormons and they are friendly,law abiding, good business people and not on welfare.

The almost 100% Mormon towns of Hildale, Utah, and Colorado City, AZ, are indeed welfare-laden.

Mormon fraud among Lds over the last several years is now in the $billions (usually one Mormon defrauding another). White collar crime has been high in Salt Lake City area going back to the 1980s.

As for the other "nice" traits, hey, if you're auditioning for godhood, you better be on your best behavior!

(Oh, and you don't go around with any other group that has a "I'm-divine-complex" and tout that inward prideful arrogance as a trait we all need to embrace, do you?)

21 posted on 07/01/2012 9:14:42 AM PDT by Colofornian (Saying Mitt would keep past political promises is like prophesying that Gumby won't bend anymore)
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To: Colofornian
"(To apply your same logic, I guess this would mean you "hate" Muslims, eh?)"

Yes, you are correct. Sharia law IS NOT compatible with our Constitution. I don't see Mormons cutting off the heads of "infidels", nor do I see them claiming America and Israel being the "Great Satan, Small Satan" that needs to be destroyed.

Nor did I see Mormons celebrating in the streets on 9/11.

I could be wrong about my last statement. If you have any proof of that, please provide it.

22 posted on 07/01/2012 9:15:21 AM PDT by NoGrayZone (For evil to triumph it is only necessary for good men to do nothing.)
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To: NoGrayZone

Well this is such BS, Romney is as a mormon 10 million times better then the Marxist Muslim, at least mormons don’t want to kill you if you don’t convert. I am sick of this card being played against Milt! I was not happy it was him but he is all we have. And against Barry I will choose Milt anytime. Milt Loves America, Obama wants to destroy America. Not disagreeing with your post just adding to it.


23 posted on 07/01/2012 9:17:09 AM PDT by crazydad (-` sd)
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To: Colofornian

The musical “The Book of Mormon” isn’t going to win any converts.


24 posted on 07/01/2012 9:17:24 AM PDT by CaptainK (...please make it stop. Shake a can of pennies at it.)
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To: Artcore
"These people are becoming seriously unhinged."

Becoming unhinged? They STARTED that way! And if you try to converse with them, the first thing they do is call you a Mormon. I have been called a Mormon sooooo many times it is ridiculous!

25 posted on 07/01/2012 9:19:44 AM PDT by NoGrayZone (For evil to triumph it is only necessary for good men to do nothing.)
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To: Artcore; Big Horn
“I know many Mormons and they are friendly,law abiding, good business people and not on welfare.” (Big Horn)
____________________________________________
Ditto that! Couldn’t agree more! (Artcore)

You know. As of 2011, Lds members fleeced over $1.4 billion from fellow Mormons the past few years alone! Guess what? They initially didn't regret "doing business" with them, either!!!
Source: Mormons Now Losing Billions to Affinity Fraud

Affinity fraud occurs in all segments of society.

But show me ANY segment of society -- that is 1.7% of it -- where there's been $BILLIONS of fraud just within a few years?

It was so bad the Lds church finally had to put out a press release about it earlier this year!!!

26 posted on 07/01/2012 9:20:28 AM PDT by Colofornian (Saying Mitt would keep past political promises is like prophesying that Gumby won't bend anymore)
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To: Colofornian; All

Why should I care???


27 posted on 07/01/2012 9:23:36 AM PDT by KevinDavis (Radical Islam is a bigger threat than the LDS...)
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To: Colofornian
"That means that just as Goode "can't win" in the states he is on the ballot for, well, guess what? Romney "can't win" in certain states as well!!!!"

That is just your simple minded opinion, which is scrambled by your hatred of all that is Mormon.

barrys peeps drank the cherry kool-aid.....seems you drank another flavor.

Unfortunately, kool-aid is kool-aid, no matter which flavor.

28 posted on 07/01/2012 9:24:26 AM PDT by NoGrayZone (For evil to triumph it is only necessary for good men to do nothing.)
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To: Colofornian

“The almost 100% Mormon towns of Hildale, Utah, and Colorado City, AZ, are indeed welfare-laden.”
_____________________________________________________

Wow, graspoing at straws. Here’s a little factoid for you:

Hildale Utah is a very rural area (think Utah National Parks). In 2010, Hildale’s population was 2,726. Not really a good example to use. ;-)


29 posted on 07/01/2012 9:24:26 AM PDT by Artcore
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To: crazydad

Oh please. This poster does nothing but post negative things about Mormons.

To heck with our country and Constitution....as long as a Mormon isn’t elected over a mooslim, all be be well.


30 posted on 07/01/2012 9:28:38 AM PDT by NoGrayZone (For evil to triumph it is only necessary for good men to do nothing.)
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To: NoGrayZone
“Becoming unhinged? They STARTED that way! And if you try to converse with them, the first thing they do is call you a Mormon. I have been called a Mormon sooooo many times it is ridiculous!”
__________________________________________________

Yep! A couple of months ago, those of us who decided we would vote for Mitt over the Marxist were called RINO’s and GOP-e’s. During this very hostile period, several longtime FReepers left the site feeling they were no longer welcome because of their decision to deal with reality.

31 posted on 07/01/2012 9:28:38 AM PDT by Artcore
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To: Artcore; Big Horn; Scoutmaster
“I know many Mormons and they are friendly,law abiding, good business people and not on welfare.” (Big Horn)
____________________________________________
Ditto that! Couldn’t agree more! (Artcore)

I guess, Artcore, you're not a very good "student" of your own state, eh?

As FR poster Scoutmaster has previously mentioned:

* Utah leads the nation in # of porn subscriptions per capita, porn consumption among the general internet user population and dial-up users. Source 1, and Red Light States: Who Buys Online Adult Entertainment?, Benjamin Edelman (Journal of Economic Perspectives—Volume 23, Number 1—Winter 2009—Pages 209–220). Utah also lead the nation in porn busts. FBI in Utah Lead Nation in Porn Busts.
Scoutmaster posted this: New Romney Ad Embraces Mormonism

****************************

Also, in a previous thread, you can see all the original sources for what is below: Sociology of Utah

I provided links there to first two headlines below...plus several others [wherever you see "source headline"]:
* Two Studies Find Depression Widespread in Utah
* Utah leads the nation in rates of depression
* And referenced where Utah has the most anti-depressant use, especially in women: Study Finds Utah Leads Nation in Antidepressant Use. Some point to the pressures of Mormonism, especially for women, to explain the surprising findings. [Source urls: http://www.usu.edu/psycho101/lectures/chp2methods/study.html http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/06/03/eveningnews/main510918.shtml ]

Other related depression and suicide Utah anecdotes:
* ”Utah, which a 2007 report said had the country's highest rate of nonmedical painkiller abuse.” Source headline: Utah has new prescription for painkiller problem [Original link...click on first link above for linkage to actual article]
* Utah leads the nation in suicides among men aged 15 to 24: As of 5 years ago: Utah leads the nation in suicides among men aged 15 to 24...Utah also has the 11th highest suicide rate — 14.3 deaths per 100,000 people — in the nation over all age groups, according to the most recent data from the American Association of Suicidology.” Source headline: Deadly taboo: Youth suicide an epidemic that many in Utah prefer to ignore [Original link -- click on first link above for linkage to actual article]
*Utah has the country's highest suicide rate for males between the ages of 14 and 25. That grim statistic is given a name and a troubled family in Carol Lynn Pearson's impassioned ‘Facing East,’ now at the International City Theatre in Long Beach. Source url: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2285528/posts
* ”For more than 10 years, 15- to 34-year-old males in Utah have had suicide rates markedly higher than those seen nationally. In fact, in the early to mid-1990s, suicide was the number one cause of death among 25- to 44-year-old men in the state and the second-leading cause of death among men aged 15 to 24. Source url: http://www.adherents.com/largecom/lds_LowSuicideRate.html

Now, this article actually says being active Lds "helps" in comparing rates. But this and another study I saw actually says when you compare the suicide rates for active Lds, inactive or less-active Lds, and non-Lds, the middle category is by far the highest:

In addition, per this article –the risk of suicide among males aged 15 to 19 was three times higher among the less active church members than among their active peers, but the rate among the active youth was comparable to the national suicide rate.

So...this article not only says suicide risk is 3x higher among less active Lds than active Lds (among 15-19 yo), but that the suicide rate for active Lds 15-19 yo is no different than the national suicide rate!!!

My point: Mormonism is no barrier to the suicide rate for teens, and in fact, jeopardizes more teens (the less active ones)!

***********************

What else about Utah is distinctive sociologically?

Utah's sexual violence: broader Utah, of which 60% are Lds.
Sexual misconduct pervasive problem among teachers (KSL.com, Oct. 25, 2009)

Quote from this KSL article: SALT LAKE CITY (AP) -- State education officials say sexual misconduct by teachers is the No. 1 reason Utah educators are forced to surrender their licenses. Records shows Utah has nearly 20,000 licensed educators. Since 1992, the State Board of Education has suspended or revoked 313 teacher licenses -- 208 of them for sexual misconduct. That number excludes 10 cases still being investigated by the Utah Professional Practices Advisory Commission. The behaviors range from inappropriate touching and downloading pornography on a school computer to full-blown molestation...In 2005, a survey by The Associated Press ranked Utah 16th in the nation for teacher sex offenses based on disciplinary records from 2001 to 2005 in 50 states and the District of Columbia. At that time, 52.7 percent of Utah teachers who lost their licenses surrendered them for sexual misconduct -- twice the national rate, the AP found.
Sexual misconduct persistent in Utah schools (Oct. 25, 2009)
Utah's sexual assault rate outpaces U.S. average (April 6, 2010)

Utah Sexual assault realities:

* A few years ago, KSL reported that there's a reported rape in Utah less than 9.5 hours apart (see http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=14136899)-- that's up just from 2008 when it was just under a rape per 10 hours...http://publicsafety.utah.gov/bci/documents/CIU%202008%20book%200810.pdf, p. 6

* Per the Utah Bureau of Criminal Identification (see also Utah Department of Health), the 2008 Utah rape rate was 63.7 per 100,000 females vs. U.S. average of 57.4. For entire crime report, see: http://publicsafety.utah.gov/bci/documents/CIU%202008%20book%200810.pdf

* BTW, 2008 wasn't some “new surge”: Since 1991, Utah’s rape rate has consistently inched higher than the national rate. By 2002, Utah ranked 14th in the nation for rapes. [Source url: http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,600125585,00.html] -- and inched to 13th by 2004...http://www.utahfoundation.org/reports/?page_id=290)

* Why has Utah as of the years since 2000, consistently ranked between 13 & 18 re: rape rate?

* Why as of just over 5 years ago, was Utah #8 in the nation for its sex offender rate per Nation Master.com?

Of course, we could take the approach that...
...Surely 60% of the population that is "nice and friendly" would actually ensure that 40% of the population would not place them in the upper rankings for rape & sex abuse, right?...
...And therefore NONE of this has anything to do with any specific Utah environmental factors, right?...
...Hence, let's just sweep this all under the image rug, shall we?...
...After all, it doesn't make for good religious PR or marketing, does it?...

Domestic violence:
The U.S. Department of Justice reported (Fall 2001) ”that national domestic violence rates decreased 41 percent since 1993. But Utah officials reported a 31 percent increase in state domestic violence between 1997 and 2000. With those climbing numbers, Utah in 2001 had the second highest domestic violence rate in the nation.” Source url: http://byumedia.com/story.cfm/34616

Utah's White-Collar crime reputation: (The second note below shows this problem is endemic & specific to the Mormon church):
* ”Frustrated by the wave of fraud that by one estimate took $750 million out of Utahns' pocketbooks last year, regulators, law enforcement officials and attorneys are organizing a free 'Fraud College' next month in Utah County for the public to call attention to the problem and to try to combat it.” Source headline: Preying on the faithful: Though Mormons often victims, LDS Church skips fraud-prevention event [Click on first link above for linkage to actual article]
* White-collar crime isn't new...Utah has long been host to the most per-capita fraud in America: Salt Lake City, with a mere 170,000 residents, is by far the country’s smallest city where the scam-fighting U.S. Securities & Exchange Commission has an office. It has been there since the early 1950s. Why? “There is a lot of fraud here per capita,” says local SEC boss Kenneth Israel. “There doesn’t seem to be any shortage of work for us.” [Source url: http://www.lds-mormon.com/6303056a.shtml ]
* Utah was #1 in mortgage fraud in America by 2001 when the FBI listed Utah as No. 1 in the country for the amount of mortgage fraud cases reported. [Source url: http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,600151169,00.html ]

And then -- as of three years ago -- Utah was in the Top 5 of foreclosures...The Provo area (Utah Co.)...which has almost 90% Lds...was one of the Top 35 regions nationally in foreclosures...

(And here we thought the Mormon church "helped its own" -- when Lds can't even get away from mandatory 10% tithing if parents want to see their own children married in the Mormon temple!)

32 posted on 07/01/2012 9:29:52 AM PDT by Colofornian (Saying Mitt would keep past political promises is like prophesying that Gumby won't bend anymore)
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To: NoGrayZone

You’re right. Their hatred is getting old. It’s like the conservative version of Jeremiah Wright.


33 posted on 07/01/2012 9:32:53 AM PDT by gortklattu (God knows who is best, everybody else is making guesses - Tony Snow)
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To: NoGrayZone
That is just your simple minded opinion...

Go out on a ledge...give a solid prediction: Which of these states will Romney win?

CA?
WA?
OR?
Nevada?
Maryland?
NY?
NJ?

Don't just engage in ad hominen attacks because you have no other arsenal available...give us a bold statement and back it up with facts!

Which of those states will Romney win? And why do you think so?

34 posted on 07/01/2012 9:33:37 AM PDT by Colofornian (Saying Mitt would keep past political promises is like prophesying that Gumby won't bend anymore)
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To: gortklattu

What hatred?


35 posted on 07/01/2012 9:36:15 AM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: Colofornian; Artcore; Big Horn
"As of 2011, Lds members fleeced over $1.4 billion from fellow Mormons the past few years alone! Guess what? They initially didn't regret "doing business" with them, either!!!"

And how much money did the Catholic church "fleece" from fellow Catholics?.....and continue to do so?

I'm sure bringing the Catholics into this is probably going to get me "burned at the stake".....so be it.

36 posted on 07/01/2012 9:38:58 AM PDT by NoGrayZone (For evil to triumph it is only necessary for good men to do nothing.)
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To: NoGrayZone; Colofornian; Artcore; Big Horn; All

How about the money that Jimmy Swaggert, Robert Shuller, Oral Roberts, Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker, and others fleeced from other people??


37 posted on 07/01/2012 9:41:37 AM PDT by KevinDavis (Radical Islam is a bigger threat than the LDS...)
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To: NoGrayZone

You deflected nicely.
Your question what about mormons and you made it about Catholics.


38 posted on 07/01/2012 9:42:39 AM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: Artcore
"Yep! A couple of months ago, those of us who decided we would vote for Mitt over the Marxist were called RINO’s and GOP-e’s. During this very hostile period, several longtime FReepers left the site feeling they were no longer welcome because of their decision to deal with reality."

They should not have left.

Revelation 3:16 - But since you are like lukewarm water, neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth!

39 posted on 07/01/2012 9:43:58 AM PDT by NoGrayZone (For evil to triumph it is only necessary for good men to do nothing.)
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To: Artcore; Colofornian; svcw; Big Horn; NoGrayZone; ETL; chris37; crazydad
These people are "becoming seriously unhinged".

It's obvious which posters are "becoming seriously unhinged" when you look at the frenzy of the responses to sourced, factual truths about mormonism!

There is no possible way for them to refute your posts, Colo...so the ad hominems are flying! THIS should drive 'em nuts!

*********************************************

The Council of Fifty and Today’s Church

One might say, “Maybe they don’t have a Council of Fifty anymore. Perhaps they don’t follow the same line of thinking anymore because they teach that a present-day prophet (the President of the Church) can supersede what former ones taught.

Each President of the Church does have the right to supercede previous doctrines, as was done in 1978 when the ban on African Americans joining the church was lifted, in what is commonly referred to as the “Black Revelation.” But the Kingdom of God and the Council of Fifty, along with its agenda, is something that would never be dismissed. Klaus Hansen states that since “world government was to be one of the Council’s primary missions,” the modern-day Church leaders are not going to do away with it. (37)

However, it is correct that leaders no longer tell members how to vote in state or national elections. This came as a disappointment to many in the church. When I was a member I recall when I heard this announcement. At the time, others and myself felt very disheartened. We wanted our prophet to tell us which presidential nominee to vote for. We believed he was a recipient of heavenly revelation and would naturally know which candidate God approved of. But, even with no longer being told, we still knew that the church favored the Republican Party.

Yet, in spite of this change in policy, the Law of Common Consent, the raising of members’ hands to confirm those appointed within the church, is still operative today. If a Mormon dares vote contrary to church appointed leaders, claimed to have been called by revelation, he or she is called in for the dreaded interview. If the individual doesn’t repent, excommunication is inevitable.

However, it is believed that at some time in the future the church will change its present policy of not telling their members what issues, or candidate they should vote for in elections. When this happens, it is believed that while members may not be told outright how to vote, it will be politely suggested. Again, no one would dare refuse. The membership will be expected to rally behind whatever issues, or candidates the leaders decide need a majority vote--and leaders can communicate their wishes within a matter of hours.

This is accomplished through a networking system, which “communicate[s] messages with amazing speed.” One church leader boasted that by using each local ward’s telephone tree, “[he] can make sixteen calls, and by the end of the day 2,700 people will know something.” (38)

Further, the Mormon Church’s Information Systems Division anticipates that via their satellite systems, “the General Authorities [church hierarchy] will be able to notify as many as three million Church members throughout the U.S., Canada, and Mexico in less than an hour!” (39)

The point is that if the Mormon Church gains any future kind of political control in the nation, the above kind of theocratic government and voting procedure will be operative.

40 posted on 07/01/2012 9:45:10 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Until the 52K LDS missionaries claiming Christian faith is bogus quit, I will post LDS truth.)
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