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To: Mr Rogers

“I know of no case where the Baptism of the Holy Spirit occurs with water baptism. Do you? One case?”

let’s see:

Acts 2
Acts 8
Acts 10
Acts 16
Acts 18
Acts 22

i also disagree with your view of sanctification. sanctification is an internal process where the Holy Spirit draws the believer into a closer relationship with God. it has nothing to do with proximity to wicked sinners, a person can grow in sanctification even if they are in prison, surrounded by murderers and robbers. so the water didn’t save Noah by seperating him from the wicked sinners around him. 1 Peter 3:21 clearly is referring to salvation, not sanctification.

lastly, it is very sad to see an obviously intelligent man accuse great men of God such as Irenaeus, Justin, Athanasius, Jerome, Cyril and Augustine of being heathens.

but, i guess it is the logical conclusion once one rejects historical Christian belief in baptismal regeneration.


188 posted on 07/05/2012 7:44:32 PM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism

“let’s see:

Acts 2
Acts 8
Acts 10
Acts 16
Acts 18
Acts 22”

2 - Nope. Do you really think the Apostles baptized each other on Pentecost? And there is no indication the ones who followed by believing received the Holy Spirit at baptism instead of before.

8 - Nope.

There is no indication in chapter 8 of water baptism resulting in the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and it is specifically rejected in one passage.

“14 Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent to them Peter and John, 15 who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 for he had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then they laid their hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit.”

10 - Nope. Cornelius receives the Holy Spirit, and THEN was baptized with water.

“Then Peter declared, 47 “Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” 48 And he commanded them to be baptized...”

16 - Nope. There is no indication of when any of those who converted in that chapter received the Holy Spirit. There IS this:

“30 Then he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household...And he rejoiced along with his entire household that he had believed in God.”

That would make Paul & Silas liars in your theology!

18 - I’ll assume you are NOT refering to this:

“8 Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, believed in the Lord, together with his entire household. And many of the Corinthians hearing Paul believed and were baptized.”

That would hardly support baptism as the means of receiving forgiveness and life.

So which passage are you referring to?

22 - I assume you refer to this again:

“12 “And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, well spoken of by all the Jews who lived there, 13 came to me, and standing by me said to me, ‘Brother Saul, receive your sight.’ And at that very hour I received my sight and saw him. 14 And he said, ‘The God of our fathers appointed you to know his will, to see the Righteous One and to hear a voice from his mouth; 15 for you will be a witness for him to everyone of what you have seen and heard. 16 And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.’”

But that refers back to what happened in Acts 9:

“17 So Ananias departed and entered the house. And laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus who appeared to you on the road by which you came has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 18 And immediately something like scales fell from his eyes, and he regained his sight. Then he rose and was baptized; 19 and taking food, he was strengthened.”

Please note that regaining sight and filling with the Holy Spirit are linked, and Saul regained his sight before he was baptized.

So no.

You cannot give a scripture reference and hope not to have anyone READ the reference. It doesn’t do any good to make up references...


189 posted on 07/05/2012 8:24:44 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (Liberalism: "Ex faslo quodlibet" - from falseness, anything follows)
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