Posted on 06/22/2012 5:26:28 AM PDT by Colofornian
(To see Cal Grondahls cartoon that goes with this post click here) The months in Nauvoo following the murder of the LDS Church founder Joseph Smith were not surprisingly, filled with turmoil and political intrigue. The recent publication of The Nauvoo City and High Council Minutes by Signature Books provides detailed accounts of the Nauvoo Stakes high council meetings. Its very interesting reading. The High Council was a political tool, a body used to cast out prominent church members who did not support Brigham Youngs claim of leadership, or the churchs still-secret embrace of polygamy.
The purge of those who did not support Young in the months following Smiths murder is an important part of LDS Church history. The Machiavellian tactics, while ruthless and arbitrary, ultimately underscored why the Mormons survived the Nauvoo disaster and thrived. They needed a dictator, Young not afraid to seize control and exercise it.
The Sept. 7, 1844 high council case of Leonard Soby, who publicly opposed polygamy in 1843 and helped publish The Nauvoo Expositor a year later, is a typical example of 1844 post-Martyrdom. Despite his past dissident status, which included an association with the anti-Smiths Nauvoo Expositor newspaper, Soby retained an uneasy status among the Nauvoo LDS religious hierarchy.
However, his support for Sidney Rigdon as church leader, and an altercation between Soby, Rigdon, Young and Orson Hyde on Sept. 3 over ordination authority for Rigdon, led to high council members surprising Soby with a motion that he be disfellowshipped. Soby protested vigorously, arguing that he was not a sinner, such as an adulterer or a moonshiner, but simply had honest differences with his high council colleagues.
It didnt help. Soby may have been a bit naive, or disingenuous. By September 1844, among the Nauvoo High Council, any hesitancy to damn Rigdon as a false prophet trying to usurp authority was a one-way ticket out of the LDS Church. By the end of the night, Soby was effectively disfellowshipped. He followed Rigdon to his church in Pennsylvania, which eventually failed. Soby, 34 when drummed out of the LDS Church, died in 1891 in New Jersey. He remains a footnore in early LDS Church history.
For Youngs majority in the Mormon leadership, there was a far bigger fish to fry than Soby, or even Nauvoo Stake President William Marks, whose support for Rigdon and opposition to polygamy also ended his tenure later in 1844. On Sept. 8, 1844, in a public meeting, Rigdon would be kicked out of the church he had worked with Smith to build, with a litany of LDS Church apostles offering evidence against him.
As Brigham Young mentioned, Rigdon and Soby has been caught by Young and allies ordaining persons as prophets and kings etc. It was clear that Rigdon, who had already lost popular support in a contest with Young for church leadership, was attempting to take what members he could from Nauvoo with him to set up a rival church.
According to Young ally Orson Hyde, Rigdon, when asked that he surrender his license, threatened to publish the history of this people since they came to Nauvoo of all their iniquity and midnight abominations. Rigdon was referring to polygamy, and it was personal to him. His daughter, Nancy Rigdon, when 19, had resisted Joseph Smiths efforts to make her a plural wife.
The stress of the Nauvoo polygamy battle caused Rigdon further deterioration of a long-taxed body and mind. By late 1844, he was a feeble adversary for Young and his allies. Young, who had long lost patience with Rigdon, chastised Rigdon with contempt. Other apostles provided anti-Rigdon rhetoric similar to what apostle John Taylor, future prophet, offered. He said he (Rigdon) is in possession of the same spirit which hurled the devil & those who we{r}e with him from heave(n) down to perdition(.)
Only Marks offered support for Rigdon. To what must have been a very hostile audience, the Nauvoo Stake president bravely pointed out that over the course of years, allegations against Sidney Rigdon had always been unfounded. Marks also argued in favor of a first presidency-directed church, rather than one as Young and others argued for directed by the Quorum of the 12 Apostles.
Marks added, I do not know of any other man this day that has the same power to receive revelations as Sidney Rigdon(,) as he has been ordained to be a prophet unto this people, & if he is cut off from the body this day I wish to the man if there is any that has the same power as he (Elder Rigdon).
Young caustically responded that Sidney had done as much (as was needed to show his unworthiness) when he arrived from Missouri(;) he had done as much as would sever any man from the priesthood Various Young allies also began to charge that the late Joseph Smith had had very little regard for Rigdon, and that his reputation within the church had been overstated. This is not an uncommmon tactic to use, in war, business or religion, when a longtime member of a group is being deposed by a new generation.
As mentioned, the removal of Rigdon and allies such as Soby and Marks were needed if the Mormons were to survive as a religion. Rigdon was an ill man by 1844, both physically and emotionally. He had suffered great physical hardships due to persecution in the 1830s and severe depression and anguish brought on by the introduction of polygamy and attempts by Smith to marry his daughter. Had Rigdon somehow defeated Young as Smiths successor the LDS Church would have withered away. Rigdons efforts to build his own church was a miserable failure, and he spent his later years as an obscure, almost iconic curio who few paid attention to. His eccentricities included long, rambling denunciations mailed to Brigham Young that were ignored or perhaps considered with bemusement by the Utah leader.
In fact, I suspect that support for Rigdon from Marks, Soby and others (several were excommunicated the same day that Rigdon was cast out) had more to do with disgust for polygamy and the knowledge that Young intended to continue the practice.
Theres no way to know if Joseph Smith had he lived would have abandoned his polygamy experiment.
Under Youngs leadership, however, it was here to stay, and opposition to the principle would not be tolerated.
Hate partner is already zotted.
I hold no hate for Mormons, but I can’t help hating the intention and conduct involved in pretending to “rewrite” the whole Bible just so that a guy can satisfy his masochistic desire to have “plural wives” to harass him.
If you would please show me where I'm in error, I'll promptly issue the necessary retractions, corrections and apologies.
“Is this guy one of those militant atheists or something?
Seems like a strange thing to be posting about if he’s not. Ok, it’s a strange thing to post about regardless.”
“He claims to be a Christian who was previously a mormon. (as I recall)
I dont see anything but hate.”
So attacking Mormonism offends you, probably for purely political reasons. I doubt you know what Mormonism is, and I doubt you can defend Mormonism or assault attacks against Mormonism by using the words of the Bible.
Not much use of the Bible here to refute mormanism, I wouldn’t want to start a trend.
Jesus taught us to show grace and love to bring people to salvation. Perhaps you need a reference for that, but I don’t.
“Not much use of the Bible here to refute mormanism, I wouldnt want to start a trend.
Jesus taught us to show grace and love to bring people to salvation. Perhaps you need a reference for that, but I dont.”
And if by “grace and love” you mean confessing things that are not true, I want no part of your ideas of Gospel grace.
Mormonism is most certainly a cult, and its leaders have historically been deceitful and usurpers of things that do not belong to them.
Will you attack me for speaking this plain, honest truth? But I’d rather do it on a Mormon forum. But, seeing the Mormon defenders get all twisted up in knots for no apparent reason other than politics is good for me too.
making the thread “about” individual Freeper(s), following a Freeper from thread to thread and badgering a Freeper over-and-again with the same question.
” I guess you assume because you cant multitask no one can?”
Huh?
You've hit reply on post 49 here, and THAT was to drift driver.
I really don't know what you mean.
I am sorry I do this sometimes; it's just that I evidently don't get interested in the "quote" until the second or third time I see it in the thread.
I know that is not an excuse; it's just a reason.
I am sorry, and will be more careful in the future; but I truly do NOT mean to imply that YOU were the one that made the original statement; even though the way I've done it DOES make it seem that way.
Again - sorry.
Well!
I can fix you RIGHT up!
Matthew 15:16
"Are you still so dull?" Jesus asked them.
Matthew 231. Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples:
2. "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.
3. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
4. They tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
5. "Everything they do is done for men to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long;
6. they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues;
7. they love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them `Rabbi.'
8. "But you are not to be called `Rabbi,' for you have only one Master and you are all brothers.
9. And do not call anyone on earth `father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.
10. Nor are you to be called `teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ.
11. The greatest among you will be your servant.
12. For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
13. "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.
14. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
15. "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.
16. "Woe to you, blind guides! You say, `If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.'
17. You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred?
18. You also say, `If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gift on it, he is bound by his oath.'
19. You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred?
20. Therefore, he who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it.
21. And he who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it.
22. And he who swears by heaven swears by God's throne and by the one who sits on it.
23. "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
24. You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.
25. "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.
26. Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.
27. "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean.
28. In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
29. "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous.
30. And you say, `If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.'
31. So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets.
32. Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your forefathers!
33. "You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?
34. Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.
35. And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.
36. I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.
37. "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing.
38. Look, your house is left to you desolate.
39. For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, `Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.' "
Mark 7:26-27
26. The woman was a Greek, born in Syrian Phoenicia. She begged Jesus to drive the demon out of her daughter.
27. "First let the children eat all they want," he told her, "for it is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs."
And St. Paul chimes in...
Galatians 5:12
As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!
What are you talking about now?
IF you find out; let ME know; too!
Matthew 15
18 But the things that come out of a persons mouth come from the heart, and these defile them. 19 For out of the heart come evil thoughtsmurder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander.
Looks clear to me.
Looks clear to me.
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