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To: D-fendr
And if she had said 'no'? No choice?

Do you think Moses had a choice? God told him that He had selected Moses and over-ruled Moses' objections.

Jeremiah was not given a choice. Despite his objections, God had selected him and that was how the plan unfolded.

The baby was going to be born from Mary's womb. That was God's plan.

Mary believed and submitted to the plan as Moses and Jeremiah also had done.

Faith comes because God creates it. Sometimes He has to work to convince. Others don't need a whole lot of convincing. That God brings faith doesn't mean we're robots. It means we in ourselves are set against His will (robotic if you will in purusing a sinful path) and it is He who moves to convince us otherwise.

232 posted on 06/25/2012 2:48:41 PM PDT by what's up
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To: what's up
Yes, I think Mary and Moses had a choice. Just as we have choices to say yes or no to God. We don't have quite the import as they, but choices nonetheless.

Faith comes because God creates it.

Hmm. Ok. Does God choose to give this faith to some and withhold it from others - before we/they are born?

Sometimes He has to work to convince.

Hard, easy, that's just a dance isn't it? The outcome is the same either way, yes?

The idea of "convince" becomes moot here. They get the faith and the grace, it's all irresistable - no matter what, yes?

That God brings faith doesn't mean we're robots.

That we have no choice or our choices do not matter, or our choices are all predetermined before we're born - that makes us robots.

233 posted on 06/25/2012 3:00:52 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: what's up
"Faith comes because God creates it."

I would like to know your theological or denominational context because it is amazing that two people can read the same scripture and come to such completely different fundamental interpretations. I am a Latin Rite Catholic. For me Faith is the response to God's universal call to Salvation and is therefore an act of the will. It does not spring from premise, reason, or intuition, nor is it imposed by God. Faith is the belief in things not seen, not known and often not knowable.

Peace be with you.

238 posted on 06/25/2012 3:34:39 PM PDT by Natural Law (Jesus did not leave us a Bible, He left us a Church.)
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