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To: D-fendr
God is omnipotent and he created man with free will. Contemplating the two, we often come to paradoxes. Some wish to resolve the paradoxes by denying one or the other.

Perhaps there IS no paradox. Perhaps there is God's will and man's will-ONLY.

Calvinism denies the latter and makes God responsible for all sin

Actually Calvin states that man has free will. It just that it tends to be driven towards evil. After we're saved then that will is driven towards good. People here keep saying man has "free will" yet they fail to explain WHY they don't follow Christ completely. I find Calvin's explanation far more plausible simply by knowing my own heart.

Even as a Christian I do the things I don't want to do and the very things I should do, I don't do them. This is the nature of our hearts. The ONLY reason I do anything good is because Christ has promise me that I would produce good works by working through me. I rest upon His promise that I'll do good things. I don't keep tallly of trying to do good because I don't presume to know what are the things that are pleasing to God. I don't worry about WHAT good things I'm trying to do. I only have to be faithful to God's commands-which keeps me busy enough.

Free will presumes that a person REALLY knows those things that will make God happy and does them. If a person knows that, then why don't they do it?

As far as making "God responsible for all sin" I would call your attention to the following verse:

Cain HAD a choice. In fact God told Cain that he COULD rule over sin. But Cain doesn't want to. As soon as God tells this to Cain, off Cain went to murder his brother Abel. You see, sin is what we WANT to do unless God changes our heart. This is the nature of man. That doesn't make God responsible.

200 posted on 06/24/2012 4:26:02 AM PDT by HarleyD
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To: All

“+ + Predestination is not a willing of God to assign someone to heaven or hell, rather it is a FOREKNOWLEDGE where God KNOWS from all eternity which people will CHOOSE Him and which will not. He has predestined heaven for those who accept Him and hell for those who reject. BUT MAN IS FREE to choose good or evil. + +

How this foreknowledge and man’s free will are compatible is a mystery. We can speculate and grab on to some notions of how this is possible, but in the end it is a mystery hidden in God.

An imperfect analogy might be an old married couple, married for 50 years. They know each other so well that they can “know” what the other will do in advance of them doing it. This foreknowledge does not force the husband, for example, to do what he does, he does it out of free choice; it is just that the wife “knows” he will do it.

Such foreknowledge does not interfere with free will, it just knows what choice the husband will make.”

~ ~ ~

God doesn’t take away our free will, He knows what our free will choices are going to be.


208 posted on 06/24/2012 6:28:26 PM PDT by stpio
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To: HarleyD
Actually Calvin states that man has free will. It just that it tends to be driven towards evil.

"Tends"? You're tending to leave Calvinism when you stray from totally depraved.

People here keep saying man has "free will" yet they fail to explain WHY they don't follow Christ completely.

Because we are not perfect. We can grow towards it as Christ teaches us. We are finite, subject to the imperfections and constant change of all things finite. We begin life as a mass of instincts, but being human we grow to more than this. We fail, we learn, we struggle, we grow, we fail again. We choose: love or hate; God or evil. Then we much choose again...

But because we are not perfect does not mean we do not have free will. (Neither does not being able to flap wings and fly if we choose to.)

And not being perfect does not mean we are totally depraved. Calvinism is full of non sequiturs.

Even as a Christian I do the things I don't want to do and the very things I should do, I don't do them. This is the nature of our hearts.

Not your heart Harley. A little lower. :)

God is in our heart - He is our being. Our hearts do not rest until they rest in Him. God created humans in His image. Calvinism tries to reduce man back to animal, instinctual only, incapable of choosing his heart - and returning God's love.

But then why would anyone love a God that 'raises up' a Hitler to kill millions to teach us a lesson?

Calvinism has an capricious and injust god; it's portrayal of man more closely resembles a base animal.

Religion, in general terms, concerns who God is, who man is, and the relationship between them. When Calvinism gets the first wrong, and the second wrong - the third becomes error compounded.

211 posted on 06/24/2012 7:42:33 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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