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To: Mr Rogers; Campion
Of course.

But that only makes me a Calvinist if I ALSO believe:

1 - He did so irresistibly,[sic Like Abraham, Moses, Samson, David, Paul, etc] and

2 - He refuses to allow others the same opportunity, because he wants to send them to hell instead. [sic Man is destined to go to hell anyway. What you are actually saying is it's not fair of God not to give people a choice of where they should go. ]

164 posted on 06/22/2012 11:00:07 AM PDT by HarleyD
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To: HarleyD
Man is destined to go to hell anyway

And Who created the universe that operates like that?

166 posted on 06/22/2012 11:53:36 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: HarleyD; Campion

“He did so irresistibly,[sic Like Abraham, Moses, Samson...”

You confuse foreknowing with forcing. What does it say about Abraham?

“6 Then he believed in the Lord; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness.”

Abraham believed, not Abraham received belief. Noun, verb. He believed. Active: he DID it.

“Man is destined to go to hell anyway. What you are actually saying is it’s not fair of God not to give people a choice of where they should go.”

If we access grace by faith, and God gives faith to some (which never, ever happens in scripture) and refuses to give it to others, then God chooses to send people to hell, for his pleasure.

That most will go there is not in dispute. That God wants them to go there, and refuses to allow them to repent, is. When Jesus said, “Whosoever believes...”, I think he meant it. I don’t think he meant, “Whosoever I give belief to...”

Part of the problem with Calvinism is that it makes God a liar, and the words of scripture false. If Calvinism is true, there ought to be at least one verse in scripture saying God gives men saving faith as a gift. There is no such verse.

And there should be no verses showing God seeking to save men - yet that is how he is consistently portrayed.


174 posted on 06/22/2012 5:06:51 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (A conservative can't please a liberal unless he jumps in front of a bus or off of a cliff)
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