Posted on 06/21/2012 8:24:00 AM PDT by fishtank
As Baptists Prepare to Meet, Calvinism Debate Shifts to Heresy Accusation Hundreds, including seminary presidents, have signed a statement on salvation criticized by both Reformed and Arminian theologians. Weston Gentry [ posted 6/18/2012 ] A statement by a non-Calvinist faction of the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) has launched infighting within the nation's largest Protestant denomination, and tensions are expected to escalate Tuesday as church leaders descend on New Orleans.
(Excerpt) Read more at christianitytoday.com ...
“Profitable (or useful) does most definitely not mean ‘entirely sufficient.’ If this is your proof text for sola scriptura, then it fails its own requirement and is self-negating.”
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2 Tim 3:16-17
All scripture, inspired of God, is profitable to teach, to reprove, to correct, to instruct in justice, [17] That the man of God may be perfect, furnished to every good work.
[16] ALL SCRIPTURE,: Every part of divine scripture is certainly profitable for all these ends. But, if we would have the whole rule of Christian faith and practice, we must not be content with those Scriptures, which Timothy knew from his infancy, that is, with the Old Testament alone: nor yet with the New Testament, without taking along with it the traditions of the apostles, and the interpretation of the church, to which the apostles delivered both the book, and the true meaning of it.
You know the little figure of the man running with his
arms in the air and underneath the pic is written
aaaaahhhhhh!~!
That’s it exactly, Paul was talking to Timothy, the
New Testament did not exist.
ahhhh. exactly.
:)
Every day now because prophesied divine events are closer. Our Lord is getting non-Catholics ready to accept the faith. The Remnant is Roman Catholic. Jesus is soooo loving.
~ ~ ~
Debra is a non-Catholic Christian prophet.
DEBRA LOWE
http://daughtersofz.typepad.com/
6/26/2012
The Spirit of the Lord says:
THERE IS COMING an unusual distinction between those who are Mine and those who say they are Mine, and refuse to do My will. I will reward My faithful ones with ABUNDANT INSIGHT and unique ways of fulfilling the Word that I have given them. Many of My rewards are not in the realm of the earthly alone, I have many treasures that far outweigh anything of this world. My blueprints will be CONTRARY to some of the plans you have made. I Am causing you to break the mold and move into ORIGINALITY My way. You have tried to do things, by following others who have blazed a path, I will allow that to a degree that you lean on Me and stay alert. Some have gone the path that I planned, and others have blazed their own and it has become monuments to the flesh and kingdoms of their own building. Many flock there, because it is “normal” to their own senses, it’s familiar, but My HEAVENLY BLUEPRINT IS IN MY WORD, WHICH IS NOT THE FAMILIAR. Just stay close to My Word and you will see My plan for you is as unique as you are and you will be a blessing to the Body. You will complete what is needed to the field that I have placed you in. I know where you will grow to the fullest potential and carry out My purpose. When you get into a rut, it is usually because you have taken your eyes off of Me. My ways have been tried and they are perfected. I keep everything exciting and new, that is why My ways are past finding out! Stop trying to make your own path and trust me to lead you on the one that I have designed specifically for you.
Let go of the old way, the way of you trying to be the lead, instead lean yourself over on Me. Be very attentive to My Word and My will for that is what I Am watching over to bring to pass for you. For too long My children have not depended on Me, they are used to being the leader, that is why it is rare for them to be still and know. To follow My Word and get the highest results possible, is the reward of those who obey. The mind of reasoning is usually an enemy to you walking out My will for you. Now I have heard My children, and have seen them looking around with murmuring and complaining in their heart because they feel I Am inactive on their behalf. The truth is, I Am waiting for you to obey me, then you will see Me manifest my promises in your life. I Am placing in you during this season an ability to bring to completion things that you have walked away from that I placed you in. The ability to finish assignments that you thought were to hard will come a little easier as you come close to the end of this year. All of this, the difficulties, the testings was for you to know and understand that I have given you all power to overcome. Whatever you decree in the land, the sphere that I placed you in will be. It is not only for you to be a witness and a blessing, but THAT YOU WOULD BEGIN TO KNOW ME IN A NEW DIMENSION. For some it was to know and realize that I Am your Provider, for others, it was to know Me as their Healer, still others, it was to know Me as their Counselor and Friend, TO KNOW ME AS YOU HAVE NEVER KNOWN ME BEFORE. There has been no easy outlet because I planted you there, for I will for you to know Me in a more intimate way. So, stand still and be still and you will experience for yourself the salvation and the glory of your God!
I note your continued refusal to account for wicked Pilate accomplishing the purposes of a holy God. I think you have no basis for an opinion about the God of Calvinism because you refuse to interact with any Biblical evidence concerning him and what Calvinists actually believe about him. At this point you are like the Democrat who keeps mindlessly repeating the falsehood that Republicans want to push granny down the stairs. Pretty pointless to continue, wouldn’t you agree? If you ever want to have a real conversation about it, let me know. I’ll be around.
ahhhh. exactly.
:)
~ ~ ~
Thanks for your reply...if only, if only.
I just posted a Protestant message from Heaven. Here’s a short message to Valentina, a Catholic seer from Sydney,
Australia.
The message was up at Joyce Lang’s Yahoo Groups - Seers2 today.
We are disagreeing about matters of faith but all of us here, Protestant and Catholic say yes to what Our Lord says in the message.
My own brothers and sisters are liberals not practicing the faith!!
Message # 36411
Wednesday, June 20, 2012
PRAY My children, PRAY. The evil dominion with all his legions of spirits are in full force to take possession of all living souls. My Call is of great urgency. I want to save all souls from his eternal fire of hell. It will only be by your prayers that will save these poor wretched souls who do not know Me. Save them My children. The time is urgent. Call them home by name in your prayers. You know who they are. They are all your brothers and sisters and your own children. Please remnant followers call them all back home to Me where I can give them rest.
message to Valentina
Wednesday, June 20, 2012
Jesus:
PRAY My children, PRAY. The evil dominion with all his legions of spirits are in full force to take possession of all living souls. My Call is of great urgency. I want to save all souls from his eternal fire of hell. It will only be by your prayers that will save these poor wretched souls who do not know Me. Save them My children. The time is urgent. Call them HOME BY NAME in your prayers. You know who they are. They are all your brothers and sisters and your own children. Please remnant followers call them all back home to Me where I can give them rest.
D-fendr, why do you persist in not reading what I write to you? I did not set the claim to sufficiency in the word “profitable,” but in the words “complete” and “thoroughly equipped.” Both such terms do address “entire sufficiency,” and you must move your attack elsewhere.
And I appreciate your point, stpio, because it actually validates the principle of Sola Scriptura. Please note I did not attempt to define the canon in my definition of Sola Scriptura. I don’t need to because Sola Scriptura is not a quantitative but a qualitative assessment, just as stpio indicated. Nothing but the God-breathed word, reduced to writing (which is what the word “scripture” literally means), is necessary or binding on the Christian as a rule of faith. Proof of that quality is all that is needed to prove Sola Scriptura, and apparently, both of you have, in some fashion, accepted it. That ... is breathtaking!
“Nothing but the God-breathed word, reduced to writing (which is what the word “scripture” literally means), is necessary or binding on the Christian as a rule of faith. Proof of that quality is all that is needed to prove Sola Scriptura, and apparently, both of you have, in some fashion, accepted it. That ... is breathtaking!”
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Absolutely no way!!##!!
“Faith alone” is a lie. A heresy, a misinterpretation of
Scripture. Protestants have no authority to interpret
Scripture. Heretical Luther.
By whose authority do you believe what you do?!!!
God doesn’t make everyone their own pope. The fruit of this is error and division. Just like the pharisees rejected Christ’s teachings, they pridefully said no.
The same today and since 1517, people reject Christ’s church. Don’t do it. God has not chosen a select
few and by a supposed grace a person can’t resist!! Crazy.
Third time I ask, what is the date of Calvin’s “irresistable
grace?”
“And I appreciate your point, stpio, because it actually validates the principle of Sola Scriptura.”
~ ~ ~
Hi SR,
You all know what I meant to type, Sola Scriptura, Bible
alone. I shout the same about “faith alone.”
The Pharisees could not believe what Our Lord taught, today,
Protestants can not believe He is truly present in the
consecrated host.
It’s going to take the Great Warning. And still, some
will reject the Eucharist. Pray about this fact, this truth
of the Real Presence.
While I believe some newer translations have improved the accuracy and the readability of the text, you should know that the KJV has, in every instance you mentioned, been translated correctly.
• For example, you cite several passages where you think “priest” should be used instead of “elder.” See James 5:14, Acts 15:2, 1 Tim 5:17, and 1 Tim 5:19. Yet in each of these cases, the Greek word “presbuteros” is used, which really does mean “old one,” or as we call it, “elder.” You have stated correctly that a priest and an elder are not the same. The truth is, there is a different Greek word used for priest, and the NT writers used it when they meant “priest.” The two words sometimes appear in the same verse, as in:
Matthew 26:3 Then assembled together the chief priests (hoi archiereis), and the scribes, and the elders (hoi presbuteroi) of the people, unto the palace of the high priest, who was called Caiaphas,
Notice that for priest the term is “archiereis,” unambiguously a ruler. Whereas “presbuteroi” is a separate category, right there in the same sentence. Therefore, “priest” should not be used where the God-breathed word is “presbuteros,” meaning “elder,” as it is in each of the verses you cited.
Funny you should mention Jerome. He saw the same word “presbuteros” in the original as we all do, and he transliterated it rather than translated it. That is, he took the Greek word for elder and gave it a Latin spelling, “presbyter.” That was how the word “priest” (the English form of “presbyter”) began. It simply meant elder. Only as the Roman church modified its meaning over a long period of time did it begin to be significantly different from its humble beginnings as just another way to say “elder.”
• In Acts 20:28, the Greek “poimaino” can in fact be translated as either feeding or shepherding the flock, as shepherding involves a lot of feeding and feeding involves a lot of shepherding. And feeding certainly echoes Christ’s words to Peter “feed my sheep.” That the sense is feeding there is made stronger by the context. The disciples see the resurrected Christ, and what does Jesus do? He feeds them. And as he feeds them, he asks them to feed his sheep. It fits. KJV is vindicated on this one.
• .In Luke 1:28, the Greek underlying both “grace” and “favor” is “charitoo,” and the proper reading is as the KJV has it:
Luke 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
I regret to report there is nothing in the grammar to suggest she had any grace to bestow. This is a perfect passive participle, which suggests instead that she was the recipient of grace, which of course she would not need if she were sinless.
• We have already discussed Genesis 3:15, and you have not responded to the information I provided. Let me repeat, the pronoun “hu” is most certainly masculine, meaning it refers to the woman’s Seed, not to the Woman. There is no logical basis for reading Mary, or anything about Mary, into this passage. The use of the neuter in the KJV gives a reasonable reading:
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
But the New King James Version (NKJV) improves it with a direct rendering of the masculine pronoun:
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her Seed; He shall bruise your head, And you shall bruise His heel.”
• In James 5:16, the Greek term is not the ordinary word for willful sin, hamartia. Instead it is the word paraptoma, which runs more toward the kind of misunderstandings and grievances between people that need to be repaired for there to be fellowship.
The problem is that “sin” can include both such activities. Yet here, hamartia, the more inclusive term, is not used. It would seem from this that the KJV translation of faults is at least a valid way to try and sustain the distinction in English, but it probably has lost some force with the changes in English over time. The NKJV uses the term “trespasses,” which does a somewhat better job conveying the idea of a social grievance rather than a willful personal sin:
Jas 5:16 Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much.
It should also be noted that the KJV translators used the Byzantine text as the basis of their work, which in this passage uses paraptoma, but many modern translations use the Westscott-Hort (WH) text, which uses hamartia here. I believe there are sound arguments for the Byzantine tradition, and good reasons to reject the WH text. But I can understand how there might be differences of opinion on this one.
• In 1Cor 9:5 the term “gune” is translated “wife” because there is no specific word for wife in Greek other than “woman.” Whether the “gune” is simply a woman or a wife is determined from contextual clues, such as showings of a special attachment to a particular male, as is done in this passage:
1Cor 9:5 Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?
• In Acts 20:28, and in several other places, the Greek term “Episcopas” is translated “overseer.” This is both logical and correct as the term is derived from “epi (over)” and “skopos (see or watch, as in “tele-scope”)” Hence one who watches over. The Old English term Biscop derived from the Latin form of the Greek Episcopas, so they really are all the same word genetically, and simply mean one who “watches over.”
• In 1 Cor 11:29, “judgment” and “damnation” were interchangeable terms in 1611. But in modern times, “damnation” has morphed and is almost exclusively a reference to eternal punishment, whereas in 1611, it was just another word for “judgment,” and could have either a temporal or an eternal signification, depending on the context. There is no real conflict here that cannot be resolved by using modern English. See how the NKJV takes us into a more typical 20th Century usage:
1Cor 11:29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body.
• Some of this is just silly. Angel literally means messenger. Context is required to know whether the “angel” in question is human or superhuman. In Matthew 11:10, the context overwhelmingly suggests human, because the subject is clearly John the Baptist as the fulfillment of OT prophecy:
Mat 11:9-11 “But what did you go out to see? A prophet? Yes, I say to you, and more than a prophet. For this is he of whom it is written: ‘BEHOLD, I SEND MY MESSENGER BEFORE YOUR FACE, WHO WILL PREPARE YOUR WAY BEFORE YOU.’ Assuredly, I say to you, among those born of women there has not risen one greater than John the Baptist; but he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.”
• In 1 Timothy 3:8, we have another case where the translation was perfectly fine for 1611, but a more modern translation renders it more readable to 21st Century readers:
1Tim 3:8 “Likewise deacons must be reverent, not double-tongued, not given to much wine, not greedy for money”
• In Romans 15:16, the phrase “the offering up of the Gentiles” is, in Greek, “he¯ prosphora to¯n ethno¯n…” Structurally, Noted NT Greek expert AT Robertson describes this as the genitive of apposition, which means that the Gentiles were themselves being offered to God, being made acceptable to God through the ministry of the Gospel. No ritual sacrifice is in view here, only the living sacrifice of believers fully committed to God. Again the KJV is correct:
Rom 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.
• Genesis 47:31 portrays an old and weary Jacob securing a promise from his son Joseph concerning his burial, then bowing his head. The Hebrew, the original upon which all other translations have been based, makes no mention of God. The translation you have offered has no basis that I can discern. It should simply read as follows (NKJV):
Gen 47:31 Then he said, “Swear to me.” And he swore to him. So Israel bowed himself on the head of the bed.
• Romans 11:4 is also a non-issue. The KJV translators italicized words they supplied in aid of translation, as they did here with the phrase “[the image of].” They wanted the reader to know these words were not in the text, but could reasonably be implied. So it hardly seems fair to accuse them of adding the words to the text, when really they didn’t. The assistive text was only there to help the readers of 1611 to grasp that the remnant of God had literally not bowed down to an image of Baal, which was in fact how Baal was typically worshipped.
Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to [the image of] Baal.
• Rendering “sheol” as “hell” rather than “grave” makes no sense in Genesis 37:35. The subject is Jacob. Jacob is God’s chosen (“Jacob have I loved”), and will not be going to hell in any event. Instead, the passage is talking about the sorrow Jacob will take with him to the grave over having lost Joseph, joining him either in death, or in the underworld. Again, context is the guide. There are passages where sheol is treated more actively as the underworld. But it is more typically simply an euphemism for death, as the underworld concept was not fully developed in the OT. Thus, the language used in the original Hebrew fully supports the KJV translation as:
Gen 37:35 And all his sons and all his daughters rose up to comfort him; but he refused to be comforted; and he said, For I will go down into the grave unto my son mourning. Thus his father wept for him.
• No copy I have of the KJV has either a 3 Kings or a 14th verse in Hosea 6, so I can’t comment on it, except to say that I would still contend that, depending on context, “grave” is a perfectly acceptable translation of “sheol” in most cases.
• In 2 Timothy 4:8, “just” and “righteous” are both valid translations of “dikaios,” and logically so, as no one could be just without being righteous, nor righteous without being just. This is pointless quibbling. There is no effective difference here:
2Ti 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
So as you can see, the case against the KJV has been greatly exaggerated. It’s a fine translation, its primary fault being that English has changed while it has remained the same.
I happen to believe in justification by faith alone, but you have misread me. I was referring to Sola Scriptura, not Sola Fide, in the preceding post. Please reread.
As to the date of Calvin’s irresistible grace, I have no idea, and I am not much concerned with it. My theology comes from my Bible. I have studied Calvin hardly at all. Only for debate purposes.
As for election, it is in Scripture. I am having a dreadful time getting anyone to discuss the issue on Biblical grounds. Everyone is happy to debunk Biblical doctrine based on human wisdom, but I am having a hard time finding any who will take on the hard passages and prove to me God isn’t really saying what he surely appears to be saying.
As for authority, what does it matter to you what my authority is? I am not in your church, and I therefore I can’t divide it.
But I model myself after the Bereans mentioned by Luke, who wouldn’t even trust Paul, but checked out his teaching against Scripture. I think you would have a hard time showing me from Scripture that a model for authority exampled in Scripture is wrong.
“While I believe some newer translations have improved the accuracy and the readability of the text, you should know that the KJV has, in every instance you mentioned, BEEN TRANSLATED CORRECTLY.”
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This is not true. You are ignoring basic facts. Like...
The Bible is Catholic not Protestant. Sodomite King James rejected the Church because the Pope wouldn’t approve of his sins.
The first Bible was compiled in 382 not 1611. Part of the KJV is taken from this Bible, the Latin Vulgate but much of the KJV is changed to ignore or go against the Church. Can’t speak Latin, then it’s the Douay-Rheims Bible. The closest to Our Lord’s words.
You do not see “priest” in the KJV except references to the ministerial priesthood in Judaism. Protestants reject the ministerial priesthood in the New Covenant.
The first Bible says Hail full of Grace. Grace is God’s
presence. Mary is sinless, she is full of God. The
rejection of Mary by Protestants so they changed the first
words of God to Mary to “highly favored one.”
KJV - Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you OVERSEERS, to FEED the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Acts 20:28, the word is Bishops and the word in the Vulgate
is “rule.” The KJV changes it to overseers and replaces
“rule” with “feed.” Those two replacement words are to
reject the fact there is a hierarchy.
Douay R - Take heed to yourselves, and to the whole flock, wherein the Holy Ghost hath placed you BISHOPS, to RULE the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
No where in Scripture does a son call his mother “woman.”
Jesus is God, He calls his mother “woman” in the Gospel because she is the “woman” in Genesis 3:15 and the “woman” in Rev 12:1. The beginning and the end, Our Lord would know the entire plan.
I suggest you start reading the Douay-Rheims, the footnotes
will help you. The Church was given the gift to interpret
Scripture not each person reading the Bible SR.
blessings,
I happen to believe in justification by faith alone, but you have misread me. I was referring to Sola Scriptura, not Sola Fide, in the preceding post. Please reread.
As to the date of Calvin’s irresistible grace, I have no idea, and I am not much concerned with it. My theology comes from my Bible. I have studied Calvin hardly at all. Only for debate purposes.
As for election, it is in Scripture. I am having a dreadful time getting anyone to discuss the issue on Biblical grounds. Everyone is happy to debunk Biblical doctrine based on human wisdom, but I am having a hard time finding any who will take on the hard passages and prove to me God isn’t really saying what he surely appears to be saying.
As for authority, what does it matter to you what my authority is? I am not in your church, and I therefore I can’t divide it.
But I model myself after the Bereans mentioned by Luke, who wouldn’t even trust Paul, but checked out his teaching against Scripture. I think you would have a hard time showing me from Scripture that a model for authority exampled in Scripture is wrong.”
~ ~ ~
I corrected what I said, did you read my next post?
“Faith alone” and “Bible Alone” are falsehoods.
James 2:24
King James Version (KJV)
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
No Protestant (since 1517) can show “Bible Alone” Sola Scriptura in Scripture. The reason, it came from Martin Luther just like “faith alone”, neither are from God.
It’s not hard to show you in Scripture who our authority
is...the RCC, she gave you your Bible. The Church is our authority not the Bible.
1 Tim 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the CHURCH of the living God, the pillar and ground of the TRUTH.
I'm sorry they do not. They address the results of what scripture is profitable or useful for - not entirely sufficient for.
Let's look at the verse simplified: "X is profitable/useful that Y may be complete, thoroughly equipped." Or "X is profitable that Y may be ..."
Profitable/useful is the key. It should be 'entirely sufficient" so that Y may be... in order for your proof to work.
Examples:
A tent is useful that the camper may be complete, thoroughly equipped. A tent is not entirely sufficient for a camper.
A canteen is useful that a soldier may be complete and thoroughly equipped. Is a canteen entirely sufficient for a soldier?
A stove is profitable/useful that a cook may be complete, thoroughly equipped for all good cooking. Is a stove entirely sufficient for a cook?
Etc.
"Perfect, complete, thoroughly equipped" do not change the problem for your proof since scripture is "profitable/useful" for it; not "entirely sufficient."
There you go again, trying to redefine Sola Scriptura down into a form you can discredit, without addressing what Sola Scriptura actually teaches.
To set the table, here’s the passage again:
2Ti 3:16-17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: [17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
The Greek term for “perfect” is “artios,” and its corollary is “exartidzo,” thouroughly furnished.” We’ll come back to that. It’s important.
But first, let’s outline ALL the variables.
1. All Scripture (symbolized as S) is “theopneustos,” the very speaking of God. There can be no higher authority than the speaking of God. Also, one would hope that when God speaks, he does so knowing what he want to say, to whom, and how most effectively to say it. In other words, we expect God, as God, to be perfectly capable of being a clear communicator. All this, and more, is embedded in theopneustos, so we will reduce it to the symbol T for our equation.
2. Therefore, all of S has the authority and quality of T. Nothing trumps it, and it is clear communication because God is its author.
3. Further, all of S is profitable, as in useful toward one or more purposes, that is, it can be relied upon to produce certain results, and it is only in reviewing the extent of those results we begin to see its sufficiency. We will symbolize this as =>, or as “yields,” as in X function yields Y result.
4. Profitability, or yield, occurs in several dimensions. Paul outlines these dimensions as “Doctrine (beliefs),” “Reproof (evidentiary proofs),” “Correction (reformation),” and “Instruction in Righteousness (duties of holy living).” We shall symbolize these as D,R,C, and IR.
Thus far we have the following:
S, because it is T, has the quality that it yields results in D,R,C,IR.
But Paul has not yet answered the question of extent, and Timothy needs to know. He is a young pastor, no doubt overwhelmed by his spiritual responsibilities to his flock, and so he needs to know to what extent the Scriptures can prepare him and those he serves to please God in the foregoing dimensions of Christian truth. Is Scripture enough, or does he need other resources, seminars, guest speakers from Rome, etc.?
But then Paul does explain what results can be expected from God speaking to His people through the Scriptures. Timothy, you may be confident that the Scriptures will produce in you a man of God who is “artios,” complete, ready to handle anything. In other words, the Scriptures make the man of God a sufficient man of God.
As if this was not clear enough, Paul then doubles down, just in case Timothy missed it (sign of a good teacher, BTW), and uses an intensified form of artios, namely “exartidzo,” to explain that there is absolutely nothing not covered by this preparation provided by Scripture. How many kinds of good things will Timothy be able to do as a result of Scripture? Every last possible good thing he’ll ever need to do as a man of God.
Now it begs the question to say there might be additional resources outside of Scripture, because Paul has here made it abundantly clear that all Timothy needs, all any man of God needs, is found in Scripture. Any such additional resources may be beneficial to a limited degree, but they would not be essential in the same way nor as authoritative as the God-breathed Scriptures. Else Paul would surely have mentioned them here.
To symbolize this extent of coverage, we will use the notation TP, Total Preparation.
Therefore we have …
S, because it is T, has the quality that it yields results in D,R,C,IR, each to the degree of TP.
Back in English, we are only saying that Scripture, because it is God speaking to us, reliably produces a man of God who is Totally Prepared in Doctrine, Reproof, Correction, and Instructions in Righteousness. There’s no upsizing from that.
Now, how does that translate to your analogies? One example will be sufficient, if you will pardon the expression. You said:
“A tent is useful that the camper may be complete, thoroughly equipped. A tent is not entirely sufficient for a camper.”
The doctrine of Sola Scriptura as taught by Paul here does not say that. Rather, it says this:
The Supernatural Camping Store of Heaven, if a genuine camper goes to it, will provide that camper with absolutely everything, top to bottom, left to right, and inside out, that he needs, to be the perfect camper in every respect.
You see what happens when you oversimplify? You leave out all the good stuff!
Consequences of this are as follows:
Nothing can produce something greater than itself. If the Scriptures can produce Total Preparation, it is because they contain Total Preparation. That’s Sola Scriptura in a nutshell. Therefore, any doctrines, evidences, corrections, or instructions in righteousness, if they are NOT found in Scripture, are not required for Total Preparation. If they are not required, they are not binding as a rule of faith.
Furthermore, as we do expect God to maintain a lively connection with His people, we do not say that God no longer communicates with man. That would be presumption. But we do say that any such communication, as it is coming from the same divine heart and mind of the infinitely wise and only true God, cannot be expected to contradict the clear and sufficient communication He has already provided to us. Thus on any new claim of authority, we as Christians are duty-bound to be like the Bereans, and search the Scriptures daily, to see if these things are true.
Peace,
SR
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
stpio, again, I appreciate your sincerity, but I am extremely disappointed in your response. I labored long into the night, and am now operating on only a fraction of my usual sleep, just so I could provide you with a comprehensive response to each of the Scriptures you questioned, and in doing so I believe I have vindicated the KJV as a good, reliable translation.
Yet you come back to me today as if you read none of it. It appears to me you don’t have any intention of interacting with any serious attempt at analysis. You are not having a two-way conversation with me. I will never join any organization that locks its people into such a pronounced inability to openly discuss what is true, to use all the gifts God has provided in arriving at truth. Look at your own Aquinas! Contra Aquinas, you have your own version of total depravity. Yes you do. You treat every input from outside your denomination as so off base you can’t even respond to it. You know why the Fathers wrote what they did? To convince people of the truth of their positions. Like Aquinas, they gave God credit for giving people outside their denomination brains enough to stumble into truth at least occasionally. You take that all away. If anyone speaks to you outside you predetermined pattern of acceptable words, you don’t try to correct error, you just put your fingers in your ears.
Well, I have much to do today. With respect to the translation of the Bible, I have answered you extensively and truthfully according to truths that God has made accessible to all men. If you refuse to hear me, what can I do?
Peace,
SR
I’ve been busy.
No joke, I’m working on a ministry project....
...not much free time.
all of S
Actually it is pasa graphe theopneustos: each and every scripture.
is profitable, as in useful
Yes. Ophelimos means profitable or useful. It does not mean:
it can be relied upon to produce certain results,
Not all by itself - that's not in the meaning of profitable or useful. Different words would be required for that meaning.
Even in your addition, you still lack "all by itself" though I'm sure you think it must be implied.
No matter, the verse actually says profitable or useful - period. Unless you add something more that is not there.
If you want to next try to use "perfect" for your proof, you have a better case for Sola Patientia:
But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing. [Jame 1:4]
Your work was not in vain and your love of the Word is evident. I read it and appreciate the effort you took. I only ask which concordance or translation guide you used because Strongs and a number of others were created by beginning with the KJV and extrapolating the meanings of the Koine Greek from that base line. A finding that the KJV is true to the concordances is expected, but not conclusive.
Peace be with you
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