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To: GiovannaNicoletta
One of the problems with the pre-trib rapture view is that those proponents begin with the proposition that there is a pre-trib rapture, and then bend the Scripture to fit their theory. That is a misuse of Scripture. Man's opinion is wrong. The Scripture is true.

One of the problems with the pre-trib rapture view is that is a modern, Western European/American invention, that only works in Western culture.

Scripture is for all men, in all times.

One of the problems with the pre-trib rapture view is that people focus on the rapture...the easy escape from suffering...Christians all over the world may be put through the meat grinder of suffering, but they expect to be raptured out of the same in America. Look those Christians in the face, and tell them their tribulations do not count.

If your focus is on the rapture over the return of the Lord Jesus Christ, your focus is on the wrong thing.

Scripture is it's own interpreter; it's own dictionary. Take 1 Thessalonians 4:12 to 18 and test it by Scripture. For a start, for every redeemed,regenerated Christian, the Lord Jesus has already come, and we live in His presence. Eph 2: But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him, in the Heavenly places, in Christ Jesus...

To consign these Scriptures to some future, one time, fabulous event robs believers of their blessing,comfort,and encouragement for the Right Now. Instead of focusing the rapture Christian should be sharing the Gospel of salvation with as many as possible.

For God so loved the world, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

29 posted on 06/19/2012 5:11:02 PM PDT by WestwardHo
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To: WestwardHo
One of the problems with denying Scripture is that it effects how one views all of the Bible, including those Scriptures involving salvation.

For example, Jesus Christ tells us that when He makes His literal, physical return to earth at His Second Advent, He brings His bride, also known as the Church, with Him:

Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written: King of Kings and Lord of Lords. (Revelation 19:11-16)

We know that the armies which accompany Christ when He returns to earth and are clothed in white and clean linen refer to the Church from Revelation 19:7-9:

Let us rejoice and exult and give him the glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and his Bride has made herself ready; it was granted her to clothe herself with fine linen, bright and pure”— for the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints. And the angel said to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.” And he said to me, “These are the true words of God.”

So if the Church is in Heaven at the time that Christ returns to earth to set up His millennial kingdom, how did the Church come to be in Heaven?

31 posted on 06/19/2012 5:38:43 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta (In the last days, mockers will come with their mocking... (2 Peter 3:3))
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To: WestwardHo

To be clear, this is not an essential issue in my mind.

One hopes each of us approaches the Scripture with an open mind/heart. Any bending of it from either view is not good.

The article makes the point that the premill view is not Western/modern only.

The hope and comfort aspect can be seen just the opposite of your opinion. The trials of current Christians are going to be rewarded by Jesus, these are the wrath of man. They may know He may come for them at any time, sparing them the Wrath of God on the earth, and take comfort from it.

I myself look to the imminent rapture, prior to the Wrath of God on the earth, as the soonest possible living meeting with Him. This is the anticipitory hope and comfort the Scriptures discuss.

I get up knowing this could be the day, not saying to myself, seven years from today could be the day.

As far as being now with Jesus as a believer on earth, I take joy from it and shine it as I can. I look for more joy to come.


35 posted on 06/19/2012 6:27:59 PM PDT by anathemized (cursed by some, blessed in Jesus)
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To: WestwardHo
One of the problems with the pre-trib rapture view is that those proponents begin with the proposition that there is a pre-trib rapture, and then bend the Scripture to fit their theory.

Naw, we just see what fits together and what doesn't...When the bible says that Jesus will come and only believing Christians will see him in one place, and then in another place we are told that when Jesus comes, the entire world will see him, we don't have to bend any scripture to know that those things aren't the same...

Perhaps you are the one bending scripture to make them the same...

Scripture is it's own interpreter; it's own dictionary. Take 1 Thessalonians 4:12 to 18 and test it by Scripture. For a start, for every redeemed,regenerated Christian, the Lord Jesus has already come, and we live in His presence. Eph 2: But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him, in the Heavenly places, in Christ Jesus...

So there's no heaven then, either...We are in heaven right now...

You certainly had to skip tons and tons of scripture to get where you are at...

47 posted on 06/20/2012 6:57:28 AM PDT by Iscool (You mess with me, you mess with the WHOLE trailerpark...)
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