Posted on 06/10/2012 9:38:54 AM PDT by Colofornian
Well, I do spend some "offline" time re: efforts vs. Islam...
But, since I'm a descendent of a Mormon polygamist -- and not an Islamic polygamist -- this is where I'm planted.
If a Mormon missionary -- one of 55,000 -- is sent to be a missionary to the Christians...do you go up to each of them and ask them, "Why not concentrate your efforts against Islam?"
No?
I thought not.
As for posing threats, might not be a spiritual threat to you, but they are to many in the world.
Jesus taught about counterfeits...And...at least Muslims don't pretend to be Christians...the Apostle Paul (Acts 20) warned about wolves who would raid the sheep...In fact, Paul made it such a priority that he warned the church Ephesus night and day for three years about that!
Kind of sounds like you and the apostle Paul don't see eye-to-eye on this...(I'll go with the apostle Paul, thank you)
“So though I agree that the doctrine of Mormonism is beyond bizarre, and certainly not Christian, I have to judge the people of Mormonism from my experience and in my experience they are (on the whole) a bunch of good folks.”
I’ve been in Vegas 30 years and I would agree, they can be great people, until they go bad under pressure or get a little power in their hands. I worked with a corrupt political consultant 20 years ago (didn’t know he was corrupt until hopelessly linked in a business deal). I ended up knowing where a lot of political and perhaps a couple real bodies are buried, so I wrote the only biography of Mormon Harry Reid.
The only reason Reid survived corruption charges in 1980 regarding the Tropicana and his best friend, sleaze lawyer Jay Brown, was because influential Mormon buddy Richard Bunker looked the other way. A lot goes on in this town that ‘good’ Mormons simply ignore.
You have to remember, Howard Hughes’ accounting staff was made up of Mormons, and while Hughes wasn’t the worst guy in the world, plenty went on with his properties that his Mormon Mafia turned a blind eye to.
The Mormon who ran McCarran airport for ages (I think it was Randy White) was also well known for favoring Mormon contracts.
I also had a business partnership with a Temple Mormon whose house is right across the street from the Temple - he was skimming money for years and almost beat me up one Christmas eve. I have numerous Mormon connections, heck my broker I work for is Jack Mormon (turned atheist as they often do).
My point is I interact with a lot of Mormons and my experience is that once they get in positions of power their crazy cult ideas can combine in a witches brew of paranoia and sense of religious entitlement (see Reid). As president, Romney will be wound tight as a steel spring trying to keep all these competing interests in check, you can already tell there is a mean streak undercurrent.
The only reason to vote for Romney is Obama is the devil incarnate. But good luck with the “Mormons are nice” mantra, you’ll be debating blood atonement for possibly the next 8 years.mantra,
Now, I don't see FreeRepublic as a Mormon recruiting site so I can only deduce that your post is in relation to Mitt Romney's candidacy. Given the choice between a Mormon President, and a Muslim, black liberation fake Christian, I'm gonna go with the Mormon. I think the Apostle Paul will be okay with my decision.
As for my comment about concentrating your efforts against Islam, I say this in the context of FreeRepublic. Islam is the threat to this free Republic, not Mormonism.
Well Islam poses a threat re: both death and spiritual death...but usually posters like yourself simply ignore the spiritual death component and simply weigh ONLY the physical death issue...as if that's all there was to life...material naturalism...
Only a fool thinks the "brush fire" here on earth is the three-alarm, city-wide meltdown that hell represents.
Therefore, yes I take our cultural cue from a certain "Lord" named Jesus Christ.
Here's Jesus:
"I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more. But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him." (Luke 12:4-5)
So does Jesus say, "fear the terrorists?" (No)
Does Jesus say "Muslims?" (No)
Instead, does He say to exercise fear of the One who has authority to cast somebody into hell? (Yes)
So, indeed, our "fear" is on behalf of those who are placing their eternal spiritual lives at risk.
Here was Paul's reference I mentioned:
"I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. So be on your guard! Remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears." (Acts 20:29-31)
Paul's cultural priority? (Defend against the false disciples who will proselytize the flock and draw away men unto themselves!)
Tell me something, liberalh8ter: If you did something tearfully night and day for three years, do you think it's rather important? So what? We're just to conclude, "Oh, the man who contributed a good chunk to the New Testament -- what does he know about cultural priorities?"
Interesting, you don't believe that Muslims have the ability to cause someone to place their eternal spiritual life at risk? AFAIK, Islam is very effective at causing its followers to cast themselves into hell. As far as my fears go, physical death is not on the list.....but thanks for speculating.
Are you serious? Paul preached against FALSE teachings.
Good grief where he preached there were riots, because of him calling these people out.
Personally, I think you are delusional if you think Paul, would say it was ok to vote for a mormon.
He would be standing at their temples preaching against them.
As a side note, if you want to discuss islam start a thread about it.
I’m sorry you believe that by my not proclaiming that the wolf **is** Mormonism, this somehow makes me completely discount Paul’s contributions to the NT. I guess I’m looking through a wider angle lens than you are. Have a nice day.
Thanks for calling me delusional. We're halfway there.
Nice try.
I did not say that Paul would want you to vote for BHO.
I said you are delusional if you thought Paul didn’t call out false teachings.
Part of those call outs of false teachings was not to support people who practice them.
People are free to beleive whatever they want, no one said they weren’t, that has nothing to do with calling out false teachings.
People can beleive falsehoods and I can call them out for it.
If you want to support Romney do so, I choose not support any candidate that promotes abortion, homosexuality, among other big government stuff - you know those silly conservative core issues.
Reread post #284, graph 1...I mention BOTH spiritual death & physical death as tied to Islam.
The difference -- as it pertains to FR as a "venue" -- is that potential Muslims & actual Muslims are not likely to be reading FR; potential Mormons & actual Mormons ARE likely to be here or lurk here.
As far as my fears go, physical death is not on the list.....but thanks for speculating.
Then you need to elaborate a bit when you said: Mormons pose no threat to me or mine but Muslims sure do
If that "threat" you mentioned isn't physical, what then?
If you want to support Romney do so, I choose not support any candidate that promotes abortion, homosexuality, among other big government stuff - you know those silly conservative core issues.
If Mormons are reading FR, I can guarantee you that your approach isn't going to be effective.
(Well, that's a nice way to frame the elevation of open idolatry -- respecting religious freedoms...By this, I mean, that temple Mormons believe they are "gods in embryo" on their way up to full-grown godhood...and voters who "platform" a literal idol -- a rival "god" to THE God...wind up aiding and abetting such idolatry)
You know, if Obama declared tomorrow that he was Messiah II and was the "new" savior on the block...I don't think we'd hear from you & other FREEPERS that we need to "respect" Obama's "religious freedoms" about how he thinks he is "Messiah II."
(In fact, such a post would be laughed out of that hypothetical thread by multiple posters)
That's why I call all this nonsense of protecting Mormonism what it is -- dual-faced religious hypocrisy.
In all my years in FREEPERland, I think I've only seen one single post of someone who evenly applied their religious convictions -- whether it impacted an (R) or a (D).
Iow, they didn't keyboard/act one way if the subject matter was Romney's Mormonism, but then act another way if the subject matter was Obama's Rev. Wright ties or Obama's supposed closet Muslim position (or catering).
If the "bottom-line" worldview conviction of you -- and others like you -- is to "respect religious freedoms..." I have YET to see that "call" materialize on any threads dealing with Rev. Wright or Obama's Muslim connections. Why do you think that is?
A similar aspect is how there's been probably 3 or more threads -- one last year -- and a few in late '07 -- about how Romney said he would not place a Muslim in his Cabinet. (This was originally reported in the Christian Science Monitor...and I can provide the links if you wish)
For those who've made it their point to either highlight our need to "respect religious freedoms" -- or for those who REALLY hyperventilate and go on a self-appointed 'bigotry' patrol pilgrimage...we NEVER saw them label Romney a "religious bigot" or accuse Romney of failing to "respect the religious freedoms" of Islam for making such a statement. Why do you think that is?
Likewise, 94-95% of Mormons in many Western states have voted for Romney. If 94-95% of Evangelicals in Southern states voted for Huckabee in '08, we'd have the MSM out there accusing Evangelicals of reverse bigotry -- focusing ONLY or PRIMARILY upon the religious credentials of Huckabee the former pastor.
Yet when it comes to Romney the former bishop, and when the '08 exit polls in Utah CLEARLY showed that Mormon voters ignored the issues and voted for Romney based upon his "personal qualities," that all gets swept to the side by the MSM & Freepers.
It seems, in their eyes, 'twas "A-OK" for Mormon voters...
...to disregard the non-Mormon/i> candidates to practice non-Mormon religious freedoms...
...holding that against them in the ballot booths.
Me? I think Mormon voters could use any measuring tool they wished re: voting. But for those who claim "bigotry" -- or for those who think it fails to "respect religious freedoms" to overly consider the other worldly-worldviews of a candidate...that presents a problem when they don't apply their convictions evenly across the board.
In fact, it's dual-faced religious hypocrisy.
.....I also realize that said candidate must respect the beliefs of his constituents, no matter how much he personally disagrees with them.
____________________________________________
What on Earth has that to do with the Mormon, Willard Romney ???
He has zero respect for the beliefs of Christians...
Just who is going to make him “must respect” ???
Kinda like dreaming about “holding his feet to the fire” when it comes to signing new laws...
It aint going to happen...
Mormons are the legalists of our day. The group most comparable to them were the Pharisees and Teachers of the Law during Jesus' three-year public ministry.
Go ahead and read the end of John 8, where Jesus equates the Pharisees with being sons of the devil; and then read all thru Matthew 23...where Jesus talks about how the Pharisees will traverse land & see to make them twice the son of hell...and how they are whitewashed sepulcres -- graveyards on the inside.
Then you can likewise go ahead & tell Jesus that you "guarantee" that His approach wasn't effective with the Pharisees and Teachers of the Law, either.
Simply...people who fail to distinguish who they are trying to reach...fall into this error of yours.
A repentant alcoholic who believes he was born with a predisposition to alcohol is approached distinctly from a non-repentant homosexual who believes he was born with a predisposition toward other men. A repentant homosexual who believes he was born with a predisposition toward other men is approached distinctly from a non-repentant alcoholic who believes he was born with a pre-disposition to alcohol.
The same can be said for pagans searching for THE True God (Acts 17, Mars Hill) vs. how Paul & Apollos dealt with the religious Jews in the synagogues...read Acts 17, Acts 18, Acts 19, for example.
Paul -- and Jesus -- both comforted the afflicted; and they afflicted the comfortable. Jesus said the Physician is for those who see they need to be healed; and believe me, being the descendant of a Mormon polygamist, there's not many temple Mormons who think they need to be spiritually healed.
A person with cancer can't be comforted if they are in denial about the cancer. The diagnosis must first be brought home -- and accepted -- before the Gospel of comfort can be introduced. The Law precedes the Gospel for us all; but ESPECIALLY for the legalist.
Your "guarantee" offered up means you have placed yourself in the position of "Spiritual Judge" of others' ministry and are now a duly self-appointed "personal Holy Spirit." The Holy Spirit doesn't need our help. (I suggest you resign that position effective immediately)
A similar aspect is how there’s been probably 3 or more threads — one last year — and a few in late ‘07 — about how Romney said he would not place a Muslim in his Cabinet. (This was originally reported in the Christian Science Monitor...and I can provide the links if you wish)
_______________________________________
A reporter asked Willard about that statement...
He ssaid it was because there were so few Moslems in the US that they did not have a large enough % to warrant a representative member in the administration...
Now think about this...
There were at that time about twice as many Moslems in America as there were Mormons...
If Willard was too be taken at his nutsy word, what was he doing running for the office of POTUS ???
If there werent enough Moslems there sure werent near enough Mormons...
I am not sure how you could be more wrong.
You've worked religious freedom into a frenzy in order to argue your point - and it's ridiculous. Respecting religious freedom has nothing to do with Obama declaring himself a Messiah while occupying the oval office. Are we discussing cults, politics or political cults?
As far as Rev. Wright goes, he's no Rev. IMO, but he has a right to spew his hatred, just as I have a right to refute his 'gospel'.
If Romney said he would not have a Muslim in his cabinet - good on him! Islam is a political ideology cloaked in religion. It is not compatible with our Constitutional Republic as it ignores the laws of our land and instead, seeks to impose its own. That's not hypocrisy, that's calling it like it is and besides, we're at war with Islam, no matter how much the liberal talking heads would like you to believe it's a war against 'terrorism'. Islam is terrorism.
As far as your Mormon and Evangelical facts go, are you suggesting that exit polls from the Mormon community are indicative of the thoughts and actions of posters on FR? If I'm reading you correctly, you would like them to 'sit out' the electoral process until such a time that their ideal candidate is running because until then, they're hypocrites. Just wow. .
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.