Most Christians Have No Idea What Mormons Believe [LDS truth claims oft' tucked away by Mormons]

My Mission Prep professor explained it was easier to get them to convert if we didn’t tell them what we really believed or believed about them.

I can give you sources by LDS leaders that show my point.

Professor Robert Millet teaching at the Mission Prep Club in 2004 http://newsnet.byu.edu/video/18773/ <-- Complete and uneditted

Timeline... Subject...

0:59 "Anti-Mormons..."

1:16 "ATTACK the faith you have..."

2:02 "We really aren't obligated to answer everyone's questions..."

3:57 "You already know MORE about God and Christ and the plan of salvation than any who would ATTACK you."

PEOPLE IN GLASS HOUSES SHOULDN'T THROW STONES

Like the one thrown at Perry that had a certain WORD on it?

(really freaky and poorly written to boot)....

Speaking of POORLY written...

THE FIRST BOOK OF NEPHI

HIS REIGN AND MINISTRY

CHAPTER 16

The wicked take the truth to be hard—Lehi’s sons marry the daughters of Ishmael—The Liahona guides their course in the wilderness—Messages from the Lord are written on the Liahona from time to time—Ishmael dies; his family murmur because of afflictions. Between 600 and 592 B.C.

1 And it came to pass after I, Nephi, had made an end of speaking to my brethren, behold they said unto me: Thou hast declared unto us hard things, more than we are able to bear.

2 And it came to pass that I said unto them that I knew that I had spoken ^ahard things against the wicked, according to the truth; and the righteous have I justified, and testified that they should be lifted up at the last day; wherefore, the ^bguilty taketh the ^ctruth to be hard, for it ^dcutteth them to the very center.

3 And now my brethren, if ye were righteous and were willing to hearken to the truth, and give heed unto it, that ye might ^awalk uprightly before God, then ye would not murmur because of the truth, and say: Thou speakest hard things against us.

4 And it came to pass I, Nephi, did exhort my brethren, with all diligence, to keep the commandments of the Lord.

5 And it came to pass that they did ^ahumble themselves before the Lord; insomuch that I had joy and great hopes of them, that they would walk in the paths of righteousness.

6 Now, all these things were said and done as my father dwelt in a tent in the ^avalley which he called Lemuel.

7 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, took one of the ^adaughters of Ishmael to ^bwife; and also, my brethren took of the ^cdaughters of Ishmael to wife; and also ^dZoram took the eldest daughter of Ishmael to wife.

8 And thus my father had fulfilled all the ^acommandments of the Lord which had been given unto him. And also, I, Nephi, had been blessed of the Lord exceedingly.

9 And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord spake unto my father by night, and commanded him that on the morrow he should take his ^ajourney into the wilderness.

10 And it came to pass that as my father arose in the morning, and went forth to the tent door, to his great astonishment he beheld upon the ground a round ^aball of curious workmanship; and it was of fine brass. And within the ball were two spindles; and the one ^bpointed the way whither we should go into the wilderness.

11 And it came to pass that we did gather together whatsoever things we should carry into the wilderness, and all the remainder of our provisions which the Lord had given unto us; and we did take ^aseed of every kind that we might carry into the wilderness.

12 And it came to pass that we did take our tents and depart into the wilderness, across the river Laman.

13 And it came to pass that we traveled for the space of four days, nearly a south-southeast direction, and we did pitch our tents again; and we did call the name of the place ^aShazer.

14 And it came to pass that we did take our bows and our arrows, and go forth into the wilderness to slay food for our families; and after we had slain food for our families we did return again to our families in the wilderness, to the place of Shazer. And we did go forth again in the wilderness, following the same direction, keeping in the most fertile parts of the wilderness, which were in the borders near the ^aRed Sea.

15 And it came to pass that we did travel for the space of many days, ^aslaying food by the way, with our bows and our arrows and our stones and our slings.

16 And we did follow the ^adirections of the ball, which led us in the more fertile parts of the wilderness.

17 And after we had traveled for the space of many days, we did pitch our tents for the space of a time, that we might again rest ourselves and obtain food for our families.

18 And it came to pass that as I, Nephi, went forth to slay food, behold, I did break my bow, which was made of fine ^asteel; and after I did break my bow, behold, my brethren were angry with me because of the loss of my bow, for we did obtain no food.

19 And it came to pass that we did return without food to our families, and being much fatigued, because of their journeying, they did suffer much for the want of food.

20 And it came to pass that Laman and Lemuel and the sons of Ishmael did begin to murmur exceedingly, because of their sufferings and afflictions in the wilderness; and also my father began to murmur against the Lord his God; yea, and they were all exceedingly sorrowful, even that they did ^amurmur against the Lord.

21 Now it came to pass that I, Nephi, having been afflicted with my brethren because of the loss of my bow, and their bows having lost their ^asprings, it began to be exceedingly difficult, yea, insomuch that we could obtain no food.

22 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did speak much unto my brethren, because they had hardened their hearts again, even unto ^acomplaining against the Lord their God.

23 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did ^amake out of wood a bow, and out of a straight stick, an arrow; wherefore, I did arm myself with a bow and an arrow, with a sling and with stones. And I said unto my ^bfather: Whither shall I go to obtain food?

24 And it came to pass that he did ^ainquire of the Lord, for they had ^bhumbled themselves because of my words; for I did say many things unto them in the energy of my soul.

25 And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord came unto my father; and he was truly ^achastened because of his murmuring against the Lord, insomuch that he was brought down into the depths of sorrow.

26 And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord said unto him: Look upon the ball, and behold the things which are written.

27 And it came to pass that when my father beheld the things which were ^awritten upon the ball, he did fear and tremble exceedingly, and also my brethren and the sons of Ishmael and our wives.

28 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld the pointers which were in the ball, that they did work according to the ^afaith and diligence and heed which we did give unto them.

29 And there was also written upon them a new writing, which was plain to be read, which did give us ^aunderstanding concerning the ways of the Lord; and it was written and changed from time to time, according to the faith and diligence which we gave unto it. And thus we see that by ^bsmall means the Lord can bring about great things.

30 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did go forth up into the top of the mountain, according to the ^adirections which were given upon the ball.

31 And it came to pass that I did slay wild ^abeasts, insomuch that I did obtain food for our families.

32 And it came to pass that I did return to our tents, bearing the beasts which I had slain; and now when they beheld that I had obtained ^afood, how great was their joy! And it came to pass that they did humble themselves before the Lord, and did give thanks unto him.

33 And it came to pass that we did again take our journey, traveling nearly the same course as in the beginning; and after we had traveled for the space of many days we did pitch our tents again, that we might tarry for the space of a time.

34 And it came to pass that ^aIshmael died, and was buried in the place which was called ^bNahom.

35 And it came to pass that the daughters of Ishmael did ^amourn exceedingly, because of the loss of their father, and because of their ^bafflictions in the wilderness; and they did ^cmurmur against my father, because he had brought them out of the land of Jerusalem, saying: Our father is dead; yea, and we have wandered much in the wilderness, and we have suffered much affliction, hunger, thirst, and fatigue; and after all these sufferings we must perish in the wilderness with hunger.

36 And thus they did murmur against my father, and also against me; and they were desirous to ^areturn again to Jerusalem.

37 And Laman said unto Lemuel and also unto the sons of Ishmael: Behold, let us ^aslay our father, and also our brother Nephi, who has taken it upon him to be our ^bruler and our teacher, who are his elder brethren.

38 Now, he says that the Lord has talked with him, and also that ^aangels have ministered unto him. But behold, we know that he lies unto us; and he tells us these things, and he worketh many things by his cunning arts, that he may deceive our eyes, thinking, perhaps, that he may lead us away into some strange wilderness; and after he has led us away, he has thought to make himself a king and a ruler over us, that he may do with us according to his will and pleasure. And after this manner did my brother Laman ^bstir up their hearts to ^canger.

39 And it came to pass that the Lord was with us, yea, even the voice of the Lord came and did speak many words unto them, and did ^achasten them exceedingly; and after they were chastened by the voice of the Lord they did turn away their anger, and did repent of their sins, insomuch that the Lord did bless us again with food, that we did not perish.

You folks DID notice who WROTE the above; right??
After all; it is a bit vague...

Unless this thread is political (and at least some are saying it is NOT political) why is this topic being raised, and being raised now? I am a Christian (not Mormon), and I recognize that there are many whose faith differs from my own. Unless we are trying to convert them, what does it matter what Mormons believe? I am United Methodist, and there are differences between what I believe and what Southern Baptists, for example, believe. I might try to convince them to believe as I do, but ultimately, isn’t it a matter of faith? Can we really argue another’s faith in any rational way? Isn’t there something inherent about the nature of faith that makes this difficult?

I think the sarc tag fell off...

we wouldn't have some 37,000 sects of Christianity to choose from...

The MORMONs seem tro have this 'problem', too!

With the Mormons (to be precise, the members of The Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints - based in Salt Lake City) intent on being called “Christians” after so many years of eschewing that word, and despite the fact that there are so many fundamental theological differences between Christianity and Mormonism, I often wonder:

How do members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints feel about calling the members of its various spin-off sects Latter-Day Saints, Christians, or Mormons? Or about those sects calling themselves Mormons or Latter-Day Saints? (There was an earlier campaign by LDS to have journalism style books use the word “Mormon” to refer only to LDS, and not RLDS, FLDS, or other LDS sects).

For a man who bragged about holding things together, Joseph Smith, Jr. doesn’t appear go have done a good job of it during his lifetime. Wycam Clark’s “Pure Church of Christ” spun off in 1831. This trend continued. There were six LDS sects spawned in the 1830s, eight in the 1840s, two in the 1850s, and seven in the 1860s.

Do those responsible for the “Mormons are Christians” campaign consider these denominations to be Mormons or Latter-Day Saints? Surely many of these denominations are much closer to mainstream LDS than LDS is to Christianity. Many stick to Smith’s teachings and old temple endowment ceremonies.

Short Creek Community
Latter Day Church of Christ
Apostolic United Brethren
Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints
Church of the Firstborn of the Fulness [sic] of Times
Church of the Lamb of God
Church of the New Covenant in Christ
Confederate Nations of Israel
Righteous Branch of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
School of the Prophets
Centennial Park
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and the Kingdom of God
True and Living Church of Jesus Christ of Saints of the Last Days
The Church of the Firstborn and the General Assembly of Heaven
Blackmore/Bountiful Community
Restoration Church of Jesus Christ
Order of Enoch
Aaronic Order
Zion’s Order, Inc.
Perfected Church of Jesus Christ of Immaculate Latter-day Saints
Church of Jesus Christ (Bullaite)
Community of Christ
Church of Jesus Christ (Toneyite)
Independent RLDS / Restoration Branches
Church of Jesus Christ Restored 1830
Church of Christ (Lion of God Ministry/Clarkite)
Church of Jesus Christ (Zion’s Branch)
Restoration Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
Remnant Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
Church of Christ (Temple Lot) (Hedrickite)
Church of Christ (Fettingite) (Hedrickite)
Church of Christ at Halley’s Bluff (Hedrickite)
Church of Christ (Restored) (Hedrickite)
Church of Christ “With the Elijah Message” (Hedrickite)
Church of Christ (Hancock) (Hedrickite)
Church of Christ (Burtite) (Hendrickite)
Church of Israel (Hendrickite)
Church of Christ with the Elijah Message (The Assured Way of the Lord) (Hendrickite)
The Church of Jesus Christ (Bickertonite)
Church of Jesus Christ (Cutlerite)
True Church of Jesus Christ (Cutlerite)
Restored Church of Jesus Christ (Cutlerite)
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Strangite)
Holy Church of Jesus Christ (Strangite)
Church of Jesus Christ (Drewite) (Strangite)
True Church of Jesus Christ Restored (Strangite)
Pentecostal Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Whitmerite)

Or these defunct sects:

Pure Church of Christ (Clarkite)
Independent Church (Hotonite)
Church of Christ (Boothite)
Church of Christ (Parrishite)
Alston Church
Church of Christ (Chubbyite)
Church of Jesus Christ, the Bride, the Lamb’s Wife
Church of Christ (Pageite)
True Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (this one was particularly curious - started by William Law, editor of The Nauvoo Expositor, just one of many sects started in opposition to plural marriage)
The Church of Zion (Godbeite)
United Order Family of Christ
Church of the Potter Christ
Church of the Firstborn (Morrisite)
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Gibsonite)
Church of Jesus Christ of Saints of the Most High
Church of the Christian Brotherhood
Church of Jesus Christ of the Children of Zion (Rigdonite) Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ (Bickertonite)
Primative Church of Jesus Christ (Bickertonite)
Church of Christ (Aaron Smith)
Church of the Messiah (Adamsite)
Church of Christ (Wrightite)
Church of Christ (Whitmerite)
Church of Christ (Brewsterite)
The Bride, the Lamb’s Wife
Congregation of Jehovah’s Presbytery of Zion
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Gladdenite)
Independent Latter Day Saints of Nigeria
Independent Latter Day Saints of Ghana
Apostolic Divine Church of Ghana

Are members of those LDS groups “Mormons”? “Latter Day Saints?” “Christians?”

Do the folks in Salt Lake City have a problem with any of those groups, who believe in the restoration of the original church by Joseph Smith, calling themselves Mormons or Saints?

Most of these divisions in the Latter-Day Saint movement occurred over the issue of polygamy or succession of the Prophet. Sects broke off when Joseph Smith was still alive, and when Brigham Young was named prophet, because they didn’t believe in the practice of plural marriage – either publicly, or in some cases when it was practiced in private and denied in public.

Of course, there was the great split between Rocky Mountain Saints and Prairie Saints, when LDS members couldn’t agree on a successor prophet to Smith, Jr., and the church went to Utah, Missouri, Illinois, Michigan, and Pennsylvania under Brigham Young, Sidney Rigdon (senior member of the First Presidency), James Strang, Lyman Wight, Alpheus Cutler, William Smith, David Whitmer (a BOM witness), or Joseph Smith III (son of Joseph Smith, Jr.). Almost all of these individuals still has multiple sects in existence that date to an 1844 decision about who should be the next President/Prophet of the church.

The Prairie Saints split into sects over the issue of whether Smith practiced polygamy. Rocky Mountain Saints had many, many spinoff sects after the 1890 Manifesto – groups that still practice plural marriage.

======================================================================================================================================================

Thanks to ScoutMaster for all the hard work here!

The MORMONs seem tro have this 'problem', too!

JESUS: Hey Smith! Remember that boast you made about doing more than even I had done to hold the 'church' together?

JOSEPH SMITH: Where am I?

JESUS: Don't you remember? A few seconds ago you were in that jail.

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh; yeah; but where am I NOW?

JESUS: Don't you remember? Does bang - bang ring a bell?

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh; yeah - that crummy gun I had was about USELESS!

JESUS: I hope you left instructions on how to hold your church together.

JOSEPH SMITH: Dang! I knew there was SOMETHING I was forgetting!

JESUS: Looks like there's a power struggle going on down there.

JOSEPH SMITH: Yeah; there was always SOMEone who wanted the power that I held - especially over the LADIES - wink wink.

JESUS: No need to worry about that now; remember what my friend Matthew wrote down?

JOSEPH SMITH: This? “At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven” (Matthew 22:30)

JESUS: That's it.

JOSEPH SMITH: I thought that was mistranslated.

JESUS: Nah - it was right.

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh well; it was fun while it lasted. My buds will still get it on with the girls.

JESUS: Uh; I'm sorry; in just a few more years; your followers will cavein to the United States government and abandon the 'Eternal Covenant' that you came up with.

JOSEPH SMITH: ME!? YOU are the one that told me to do that!

JESUS: Sorry; but you must have mistranslated what I told you. What part of Do NOT commit ADULTERY did you not understand?

JOSEPH SMITH: mumble....

JESUS: What did you say?

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh, nothing.

JESUS: Well; it was interesting talking to you; but now I must get back to perparing a place for those who believe in Me.

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh, yeah; the Celestial Kingdom.

JESUS: No...

JOSEPH SMITH: The Telestial one?

JESUS: Nope.

JOSEPH SMITH: SUREly not the TERRESTRIAL one!!

JESUS: Nope. Didn't you read that the mind of man had NOT conceived of it? Paul wrote it down in 1 Corinthians 2:9.

JOSEPH SMITH: I thought that was mistranslated.

JESUS: No; it wasn't.

JOSEPH SMITH: You SURE?

JESUS: Yes. Now I must be going: what did you say your name was again?

JOSEPH SMITH: Joseph Smith.

JESUS: Hmmmm. According to my Heavenly FAITHbook, you didn't sign in as one of my friends - sorry, I never knew you.

JOSEPH SMITH: But....

Since you started this thread, and Freeper ‘Elsie’ has posted about half of the 150 or so comments, I thought you two would be the best people to ask this question.

Since it’s clear you will not vote for Romney, who will you vote for? Or will you choose not to vote at all?

FYI - here’s a link I found containing what I believe is the best selection of all political parties who will be seeking the Presidency. Is there anyone here you plan to vote for?

http://www.politics1.com/p2012.htm

I’m not posting this to dispute anything either of you have to say here, and I understand your intention is a good one, to save people from believing in basically a garbage doctrine, but I just have to “bear witness” and tell you what I saw over a period of a couple of decades (and on-and-off, even longer). Not trying to start an argument, just telling you my experience.

Sam, if you'd at least listen to other's experiences -- also from 'Vegas -- you'd hear their "bearing witness" as well.

I consider Mormonism a cult, as weird and whacko as the Church of Scientology. But I lived and worked in Las Vegas for many years (non-casino jobs) and have been a conservative my whole life and though I never had any friends who I would call “close friends” who are Mormon, I did have many Mormon friends, acquaintances and co-workers. And seriously, they always were on the up-and-up with me, always worked hard at their jobs, always seemed like good family people, always talked as if they were conservative voters, none of them were on welfare (that I knew of) and none of them ever tried to convert a Christian to their religion (that I saw). So though I agree that the doctrine of Mormonism is beyond bizarre, and certainly not Christian, I have to judge the people of Mormonism from my experience and in my experience they are (on the whole) a bunch of good folks.

Well, who was I referencing 'bout "bearing witness" to Mormonism, 'Vegas-style? Consider the "testimony" of Freeper Daxton Brown:

A Freeper commented last year: [Except for Dingy Harry,I know no evil Mormon.]

Daxton's response: Well come on down to Mormon Vegas and I will introduce you to a bunch. In the power circles they run just as dirty as anyone here. People just get tricked by the Mormon next door who’s only quirk is a garage full of groceries. The power boys use the Bishopries and insider games to pound Gentiles.
Source: Can a Mormon be president? Two opposing views [post #26] (July 2, 2011)

I'm sure Daxton can fill you in on a LOT more!

I’m not doubting that. I didn’t run in the “power circles” so I just didn’t know those people. And of course a lot of Reid’s support comes from Mormons, and you don’t get much worse than Reid.

I was just sharing my experience, the people I knew. I live in the NY area now and I can tell you it’s much harder to find conservatives here than in the Nevada of my earlier days, and that includes Mormon Nevada.

Also, it’s a matter of public record that Utah has a more conservative voting history than, say, New Jersey.

And the once-red state of Nevada wasn’t turned blue by an influx of Mormons, but of Easterners and Mexicans.

Since it’s clear you will not vote for Romney, who will you vote for? Or will you choose not to vote at all?

It's important to vote...tho the lack of passion 'bout Romney & Obama will keep the turnout lower, IMO.

I believe the "ABO" crowd -- if they were truly serious about not using "ABO" as just a euphemism for pro-Romney -- should seriously consider two worthy "ABO" candidates...Virgil Goode of the Constitution Party and FREEPER Tom Hoefling (aka "EternalVigilance").

I've been leaning toward Goode -- a former rep from the state of Virginia; but Tom's a great guy as well.

Now why should FREEPERS consider voting for Goode or Hoefling?

(1) FReepers living in liberal states like the Left Coast (WA, OR, CA); or NY/NJ; or MD & even some of New England...should know that voting for Romney won't help him win in those states. Obama will win, anyway.

(2) FREEPERs living in the South and some Midwestern states should know that even if we subtracted ALL FREEPER votes for Romney, Romney will still win those states. There's just no way Obama will pick up those states. That should also then release FREEPERs in those states to actually place a vote that will make a difference.

How will that make a difference? Well, if conservatives in liberal states would abandon Romney in droves, that'd send a message to the GoP-E. And if conservative FREEPERS in conservative states would keep from abandoning principle, that'd send a message to our God that at least He has a remnant to rebuild upon.

We have to keep in mind that it would have been unthinkable not that long ago that we would have well over 90% of American voters voting for a liberal.

I think that in and of itself sends a direct message to God that yes, America is overripe for judgment.

And there we have it, mormonism is a cult but they are such nice people.
place marker

Mitt Romney was injected into the thread at post #2. Several subsequent posts have focused upon Romney as if he is treacherous because his religion is fundamentally treacherous for America. Perhaps that's what is confusing to readers just clicking into read along.

It does appear that the topic of MormonISM is being used as a vehicle to attack Mitt Romney. We warned that this would happen when Mitt lept into the primaries, that the vermin in DNC sycophantic media would crucify Milt over his weird religious beliefs because it is too tempting to ignore for the 'do anything to hold onto power DNC.

Sadly, that work appears to be leaping out from Freerepublic religion forum; instead of being focused upon exposing the heresies in Mormonism, we see in the religion forum threads which appear to expose MormonISM only to be strategically shifted to attack Romney for his religious beliefs.

If there are aspects about modern Mormonism which reveal it is treacherous to The Republic, then I could understand the linkages. If Milt was a mooselimb we would be posting about the haditha and the treachery mooselimbs are instructed to use toward all who are not followers of the lesser moon goddess who was at the beginnings of that religion, and the instructions to lie, steal, cheat, and murder those who are opposed to Islamic dictates.

But I have yet to find such aspects (other than lying for the Lord taught to the missionaries, which is treacherous to your soul but not the Republic/nation) in modern MormonISM or Mormons, so it strikes me as 'counter productive' in the work to expose the heresies at the heart of the ISM, to attack Mitt the sleazy liberal(and he is don'tchaknow) as a significant part of religion forum threads.

If Romney is successful in ousting the commie running the federal thugocracy, we Inmans will have four years of near over exposure to reveal the blasphemies in MormonISM and perhaps persuade individuals caught up in that cult that they are being duped, just the way Milt will try to dupe the nation with his brand of liberalism.

And don't dare call attention to that appearance because you will be vilified, alinskyed personally (fix the target by speciously defining it, freeze it, then attack it), for 'compartmentalizing your religious beliefs'. Well, that's a generic "you", I doubt Elsie would be vilified since you have such affection for goats.

Thank you for a well thought out and considerate response!

Living here in PA, I have a feeling it will be close on Election Day.

I hate the idea of having to vote for Romney. And I've been dreading the day that I get put in that position.

I usually vote first thing in the morning, but I think I will wait until the very end of the day to go to the polls.

That way, if it's not close one way or the other, I won't be forced to vote against Obama by voting for Romney.

But considering the choices, it looks like that's all my vote will be this year - a vote against Obama. Very discouraging.

I was just sharing my experience, the people I knew

Sam...you need to understand that I myself am a descendent from a polygamist Mormon leader...and have MANY relatives/extended relatives who are Lds. I love them. I would have high opinions of what they make do with stewardship-wise of their life -- if only that would actually glorify the true God!

(Glorifying ourselves and glorifying false gods simply robs God of that glory)

Sam, perhaps you've read my common response to those sharing about their good experiences with Mormons: If you were auditioning for godhood, you, too, would be on your best outward behavior!

Early in the book of Matthew, Jesus complimented the outward behavior of the Pharisees; yet in Matthew 23...he described them inwardly as whitewashed sepulcres -- graveyards.

Also, it’s a matter of public record that Utah has a more conservative voting history than, say, New Jersey.

If you want the details I could give them to you: Utah has an extremely high rate for financial fraud -- and has so for decades; the foreclosure rate is in the Top five; it has a high rate for depression and suicide; the sex offender rate in Utah is in the Top 20, and the educator-as-sex-abuser in Utah is much higher than that; its porn access rate is tops.

None of us has raving reviews of our "internal" life; yet what you see on the outside is not even remotely close to what is rotting on the inside in Utah.

always talked as if they were conservative voters

That talking will go by the wayside in November when America's mormons vote lock step for Romney.

I wonder, are there enough lock step mormon voters to counter the lock step black voters? Neither group will be voting for the good of the country, but because of the shared demographics.

You a are a troll and you seriously need to get a life that goes beyond trashing the LDS.

Thanks, Ma'am; but we trash CHRISTIANS!

I assume that you’ll be voting for Obama?

I guess you will be voting for a DECEIVED mormon??

Or perhaps a DECEIVING one???

Actually I have thought deep about why God would let a LDS member rise to the White house. We know the Lord has no interest in trying to add legitimacy to the illegitimate. But I see a point in what you say as well. Light is the best way to expose what lies in the darkness and the LDS will be exposed more than ever before. Their own greed for members has them acting recklessly now, all excited that one of theirs will have the highest office without thinking of what that truly means.

As far as Mitt and the candidacy I feel no more secure about mitt than I do Obama really, at least on domestic matters. In fact with Republican majority at least Obama would be land locked. Mitt wants many of the same things despite his new found Conservative staance. In 19 months after being sworn in I have a feeling I will get a really good I told you so moment as Romneycare and other items are passed by a Republican congress not wanting to go against a sitting Republican president and Democrats glad to have their plans in acted if under a different label.

We are screwed one way or the other as things stand now.

I can not support Obama nor actively support Romney.

I will figure out what that means when the time comes.