Posted on 05/17/2012 5:40:57 PM PDT by Gamecock
“What matters is that the Lord knows who are His; and that those who are His, by His grace and His grace alone, act in a manner according to which they were called so that others may see that He lives.”
Absolutely, and by the time we know who are His we can do nothing about it.
An annulment is a ruling by the Catholic Church that a marriage was never valid TO BEGIN WITH; it has to be rooted in a situation that existed at the time of the wedding. In the former NJ governor’s case, if he was married in the Catholic Church his wife could obtain an annulment by the fact that he was a homosexual AT THE TIME OF THE WEDDING. One of the reasons the Catholic Church stopped pushing young people to “do the right thing” if the woman was pregnant out of wedlock because that was always grounds for an annulment; either party could later claim they married only because she was pregnant at the time of the wedding.
Another example would be someone who was mentally ill at the time of the wedding, or someone who was already married to someone else at the time of the wedding.
People refer to annulment as “Catholic divorce”, but the timing issue is what really distinguishes it from a divorce. A divorce is a legal ruling that a valid marriage is over; an annulment is a decree that a marriage never took place. I believe Ted Kennedy’s wife publicly fought the annulment he sought; she knew there were no valid grounds for it.
There is no Biblical basis for annulment.
God did not recognize it and Jesus never taught it.
It’s strictly a man-made concept to avoid the stigma of a divorce.
You get married and have sex, you’re married, period, and the breaking of the marriage is called divorce.
In the last two Evangelical churches I've attended, I know of members who were removed from the membership rolls- one because of adultery, one because of unethical business practices which the church confronted him about and he did not stop, and one pastor who was removed from the ministry and had his license revoked for garden variety adultery.
Nothing like molesting little boys stuff.....
I find it hypocritical to the extreme that criticism is lobbed at non-Catholcis for how they deal with sin in the congregation considering the inaction on the part of the Catholic church in their OWN house. When priests who homosexually abuse little boys are not dealt with and liberals like Pelosi, Kennedy, etc who basically spit in the face of the church are not only given license to continue their liberal politics, but are permitted to take communion and given Catholic funerals, no Catholic is in any position to legitimately criticize any other denomination for how they handle sin among their members.
I've seen this to be true dozens of time. Ex-Catholics end up mad they were lied to when all they have to do to be saved is believe in Christ as Lord, King,God and Savior.
Who wouldn't be angry they were lied to?
As Jesus insrtucts us -- "Be not afraid; only believe."
Sounds interesting, but what does that mean? Are all of the members and clergy excommunicated from the PCA? If so, what does that mean?
It is not that unusual. I also know several PCA pastors who will not marry couples. I also know of instances where people were not allowed to participate in communion and then asked to leave the church because of sin.
Does that mean that they are unable to participate in any PCA or affiliated services?
Just because you haven’t heard of it does not mean it doesn’t happen. It happens a lot more in evengelical churches than in the Roman church, IMO.
It sounds more encouraging than I thought, but can you explain exactly what this process means?
Very good, but what does that mean? Are they unable to attend other Evangelical churches and receive whatever sacraments they have? What does this pastor do after this point - does he get to go elsewhere?
I find it hypocritical to the extreme that criticism is lobbed at non-Catholcis for how they deal with sin in the congregation considering the inaction on the part of the Catholic church in their OWN house. When priests who homosexually abuse little boys are not dealt with and liberals like Pelosi, Kennedy, etc who basically spit in the face of the church are not only given license to continue their liberal politics, but are permitted to take communion and given Catholic funerals, no Catholic is in any position to legitimately criticize any other denomination for how they handle sin among their members.
What does your particular group do about child molesters? And what does that mean to their practice of worship - assuming that they have any.
I've seen this to be true dozens of time. Ex-Catholics end up mad they were lied to when all they have to do to be saved is believe in Christ as Lord, King,God and Savior. Who wouldn't be angry they were lied to?
Your failboat has just arrived. Mormons believe in Christ as Lord, King, God and Saviour. So do Oneness Pentecostals and Jehovah's Witnesses. Thanks for once again pointing out the errors of Calvin.
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one. (John 10:27-30)
I knew as soon as I read those words of Jesus that I was in the wrong church. I never had any desire to go back but rejoice that there are many local Christian churches that teach the true gospel and I am free to fellowship where ever the Lord leads me.
You are 100% correct! For some, it is impossible to believe that anyone could leave the Catholic Church for legitimate reasons like doctrine. Yet we are here and have no reason to lie about it. I am grateful for the genuine Christians who, though Catholic, fully accept that others can receive the Lord Jesus Christ as savior, live for him, and be saved outside of their church.
He DID give the source. I clicked on it and was redirected to: http://ncronline.org/news/hidden-exodus-catholics-becoming-protestants, just like it was posted here. Funny, but it seems you like to repeat posts from years ago, ones that provoke a lot of comments from non-Catholics. Are you accusing Gamecock of something you do all the time? Is the topic too hard to dispute that you seek to have it removed?
The link was broken. I fixed it.
AMEN!!!
Amen!!! Man looks at the outward appearance (labels), God looks at the heart!
What do you think it means? It means what it says - "they are not allowed to particpate in communion and then asked to leave the church if the sin continues with no repentance". I should have added the part about the repentance.
It sounds more encouraging than I thought, but can you explain exactly what this process means?
The process is exactly as described in scripture. Please refer to Matthew 18:15-20:
15 “If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. 18 Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. 19 Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. 20 For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.”
There's a world of difference between being angry about being lied to and being bitter.
We are told not to sin in our anger, not that anger is necessarily the sin. There is a place for righteous anger at wrongs done. But that does not necessarily have to lead to bitterness and doesn't always. I don't know any ex-Catholics who are bitter.
There are a lot of accusations against former Catholics of bitterness, usually hurled at former Catholics by presently practicing Catholics. It seems to make them feel better, like they're better than everyone else. Or that it's the reason that the former Catholics are speaking out against the errors they see in Catholic church doctrine when compared to Scripture.
But it is untrue in what I'd say are the vast majority of the cases.
I am not Metmom, but I know of a solid local Baptist congregation who had an elder who was found to be a child molester. They Matthew 18 and confronted him. They prayed with him. He did repent, but he is no longer an elder and they immediately reported him to the authorities and obviously is never again allowed to be alone with children. This is standard proceedure in biblical churches, and has always been. What is the history of your church on child molesters?
Ex-communication means nothing when you recognize the fact that salvation is through by grace alone, through faith alone in Christ alone.
If you believe that ex-communication affects your salvation, then you are placing your trust in the church to save you and not Jesus.
Churches don't save and churches can't save.
Peter speaking here..... Acts 4:12 And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
Likely turn them in to the police in addition to revoking their membership.
The history recently (since the 80s) has been similar to what yours has been. Yes, there were serious mistakes in the 60s and 70s and yes, more should have been done like kicking out the monsters who did those horrendous acts.
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