Posted on 05/17/2012 5:40:57 PM PDT by Gamecock
Sure you are.
John 3:16-18 16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
Romans 8:1-4 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. 3 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
The “altar call” maybe for some a moment of conversion but it does not justify -save- anyone.
Of course conversion saves people. Whether it's an altar call is irrelevant. People get saved in all kinds of places. In living rooms, bedrooms, outside, at work, where ever they happen to be when they decide to commit their lives to Christ.
Colossians 1:9-14 9 And so, from the day we heard, we have not ceased to pray for you, asking that you may be filled with the knowledge of his will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding, 10 so as to walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing to him, bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God. 11 May you be strengthened with all power, according to his glorious might, for all endurance and patience with joy, 12 giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the saints in light.
13 He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
We all belong to Jesus. The only question is whether we accept Him as He presents himself, or whether we fool ourselves into believing that a faux representation of Him is sufficient.
Since churches and religions cannot save, membership in them is meaningless. I've attended all kinds of churches from GARB (Baptist) to OPC to Pentecostal, and my identity is not with any of them because they don't save.
Thank you for confirming my thesis.
I suppose that if someone is of the school that churches save, this WOULD go right over their heads.
If you decide to make it all up as you go along, what does that faith consist of?
More applicable advise would have been: "Let it be your first care not to deceive yourself." - St. Melito of Sardis (165-180AD)
I bow to your wisdom. You are correct.
Ephesians 4:5 states one lord, one faith, one baptism so it’s logical, Jesus Christ established ONE Church, the RCC. Protestantism broke away from the Roman Catholic Church. God wants us all to believe the same, no Christian, Catholic or Protestant will disagree. Trust, God is going to make it happen. The Great Warning may happen in 2013.
The Catholic Church is His. The others are of men. That is all that I know. I do not know of the end times, and frankly don't care. The Lord will call me when He is ready for me - if He can survive the encounter. :) Or, if I can...
“Faith Alone” does not save you. You misinterpret Scripture
because you have no God given authority to interpret Scripture metmom. John 3:16 does not save you. And Tim Tebow has got to stop preaching this.
Prophecy is a help, Our Lord is getting everyone ready, no more division, Jesus explains to a PROTESTANT prophet.
Message to Kevin Barrett
April 1st, 2012
...Did I not say in My word that not all that say to me ‘Lord’ ‘Lord’ shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, save those that do the will of the Father who is in heaven? Then why do you still go about doing your own will and tell yourselves that you are My bride? My people, you have been lied to by the enemy of your soul. Seek Me in these things. Surely I will reveal My truth to you. I love you, My dear children, and it is My desire that each of you share My throne with Me. But unfortunately only a remnant shall overcome. For too many have listened to the lies told by the false shepherds and prophets. THEY SPEAK OF HOW YOU EACH ARE ALREADY CLEANSED AND ADORNED IN RIGHTEOUSNESS SIMPLY BY YOUR BELIEF IN MY NAME. These are all lies, My people. For does not My word say that he who does righteousness is righteous? Yes, My people, you are made righteous by your faith in Me, but it is fulfilled by your obedience to My voice. IT IS NOT IMPUTED TO YOU BY A ONE-TIME CONFESSION OF MY NAME. Oh, My people, you have been lied to....
http://www.hearhisheart.wordpress.com/
Never said it was. If you are confident in your beliefs, then show it, don't cloak it. Don't hide it under a bushel basket.
“Even sick twisted John Travolta.......”
Who has paid out billions for it's sick, twisted priests?
I give up. Who? They started after the Baptists but realized that the pockets were not as deep.
“I am not ashamed of my religious beliefs”.
And yet the origin of so many of them are “man made doctrines”, that which you say others have fallen away to.
That would be a big negative on that.
“The Catholic Church is His. The others are of men. That is all that I know”...
~ ~ ~
Amen!
I would give you a hug if I could.
~ ~ ~ Amen! I would give you a hug if I could.
Any aid would be appreciated. Man, oh man, I could use it...
“Never said it was. If you are confident in your beliefs, then show it, don’t cloak it. Don’t hide it under a bushel basket.”
So who has done that? Really, has anyone ever said they won’t discuss their beliefs? Or lack confidence or are ashamed......
Who exactly is this person that is “ashamed” of....of whatever?
Likewise, the catholic Jesus is a door. A literal door. He is also a rock. A literal rock.
Once you understand and believe this, you will at least be a little more consistent with your interpretation of scripture.
Do you take Jesus says at "face value" when he says he is the door? Is Jesus an actual door?
When Jesus said call no man "Father" on the earth do you take this at "face value" as well?
This Kevin Barrett guy is NOT hearing from Jesus Christ. Please do not let the devil trick you and deceive you into believing he is. When Jesus was asked, “What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?” He answered, “This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.”(John 6:29)
“This Kevin Barrett guy is NOT hearing from Jesus Christ. Please do not let the devil trick you and deceive you into believing he is”
~ ~ ~
Kevin is not a Catholic messenger boatbums, maybe you don’t believe him because Our Lord states in his messages ~
OSAS - false
Altar Call - does not justify you
Prosperity Gospel - false
Pre-Trib Rapture - a lie
Message to Kevin Barrett
May 3, 2012
http://www.hearhisheart.wordpress.com/
...You will either put your trust in Me for your provisions, or trust in man. But be warned, My little ones. For those that put their trust in man will be deceived by the lawless one called ANTI-CHRIST. For he will raise himself up with wonders and powers and deceit will be upon his lips. But those that fall for his lies will be many. And though he may seem to have answers to the word’s crisis at the time, it will be short lived and then destruction and judgment will come upon all those that have put their trust in him. Oh, My people, how I do not wish for you to be deceived. But hear Me this day. If you do not learn to abandon yourselves and put your heart’s whole trust in Me, then in your own self-wisdom, you SHALL be deceived.
Hear My warnings, little ones. This all shall come upon the earth very soon. MANY HAVE BEEN DECEIVED INTO BELIEVING THE “PRE-TRIB RAPTURE” LIE. They shall be greatly disappointed as they did not prepare themselves for the tribulation and instead put their hope in lies. Oh, My people, why? Why do you still believe the lies of the devil? Soon and very soon all will know his lies and how they all have been deceived. But AT THAT TIME OF KNOWING, it will be too late for the ones deceived...
You doth protest too much, me thinks.
door...any means of approach, admittance, or access. Jesus is the door
“Jesus therefore said again to them, Verily, verily, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. All whoever came before me are thieves and robbers; but the sheep did not hear them. I am the door: if any one enter in by me, he shall be saved, and shall go in and shall go out and shall find pasture.”
(John 10:7-9)
The Greek word is ‘thura’, portal.
As to the calling a man ‘father’...let’s take it in context...
“Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments, And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues, And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi. But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ. But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted. But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.”
(Matthew 23:2-13)
Now, all that said, would you refer to a Jewish ‘Rabbi’ as ‘Rabbi’? Do you have a title for your ‘pastor’, ‘minister’?
We all like to take the Word out of context to make ‘our point’. You have done it here. Now, what is your point? Obviously you think I refer to ‘my priest’ as ‘Father so & so’ ... guess the joke is on me ... I’d have to be Catholic then, would I not?
When you assume, you make Ass/U/Me...lol!
“Stpio, your words are not true. You contradict the very words of Jesus, the truths he taught as well as the truths the Holy Spirit revealed to those who wrote the Bible...
Here’s a hint on that “comma” placement,...
It is STILL ONE OFFERING - that is all it took for our sins to be paid for. He is the PROPITIATION for our sins - the satisfactory, paid in full”...
~ ~ ~
Roman Catholics wrote the Bible and most Protestant ministers agree.
The Douay-Rheims came first, moving the “coma” and a thousand other changes were made to the KJV.
Jesus redeemed mankind, His death on the Cross does not cover all our sins...as you say...”paid in full.” I wish I could find a basic explanation of the Holy Mass for you. You didn’t speak about Our Lord’s priesthood being everlasting, or as the KJV states unchangeable. And what of the Old Testament, repeated in Daniel, the reference to the “continual sacrifice?” What is the “clean oblation” in Malachi?
Beautifully stated post. God bless.
I was just pinged to this (thanks MM), and see that you met the typical RC responses, that,
1. That of rejecting the overall reliability of survey results which all show Catholics as more liberal than evangelicals, and more becoming evangelicals, based upon the premise that they have it in for Catholicism, while favoring evangelicals (like George Bush or Sarah Palin), which is absurd except to those who imagine Catholics are more conservative.
Or that nothing impugns Rome can be allowed if it comes from an "anti-Catholic" source, which anyone who impugns and does not support Rome, is, but which is the genesis fallacy, and contra Mt. 23:2.
And the fact is that every poll i have every come across on the subject across many years shows that Catholics are more liberal than evangelicals, and that more RCs become evangelicals than swim the Tiber the other direction.
Not that the MSM is not anti-Christ, but that does not disallow anything they say, and i have gone to lengths in threads to show that these stats are consistent.
2. That the liberals and those who leave Rome were only CINOS, and cannot be counted as Catholics.
However, as i also said (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2885062/posts?page=256#256) in the thread which proved this one, while these may be excluded by some, until Rome publicly excommunicates men like Ted Kennedy or otherwise treats known offenders as as such, and effectually requires repentance (so they become the small minority which TCs are, instead of being the majority), rather than counting and treating them as members in life (and in stats) and in death, then we must also count them as members, and as representing the faith that Rome most effectually conveys, and what mostly constitutes her OTC.
Indeed, as these make up the vast majority of Catholics, then the (so-called) one true Church© of Rome would be mostly full of damned souls, few of which see any real discipline. (Ted had Masses said at his own house.)
3. The Catholic church is growing and S. Baptists, etc., are shrinking.
The former is barely true, and is misleading, as it depends upon the year and any RC growth is overall minimal, and if wasn't not for immigrant Latin Catholics, the percent of Catholics in America would be decreasing, and in fact she loses more than many others.
Moreover, while the numbers of all "Christians" are growing due to the increase in population, but not as a percentage, and both Catholics and Protestants are decreasing as a percentage, with Islam (about 40% by immigration) , Mormons (who never remove exmormons unless requested or excommunicated), and "Nones being the fastest growing percentage.
4. That those who leave for evangelical churches do so because they did or want to get divorced and remarried, or some other doctrine.
However, the the overwhleming testimony of such (and myself) for leaving was due to spiritual deficiency in Catholicism.
See (http://www.peacebyjesus.com/RC-Stats_vs._Evang.html, from which the below are taken, for more stats on these.
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Though i think more evangelicals do leave now due to the compromise in evangelical churches, for years Catholics have led in declension and in departures compared to evangelicals See more and notes here. My old priest used to exhort us, “sing like Protestants.” |
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As concerns the Latin growth:
Why Do Catholics Become Evangelicals?
Catholicculture.org
In an article entitled, "The Glory and Power of the Gospel," Fr. Raniero Cantalamessa —l; Preacher to the papal household — in a retreat for 1,500 priests and seventy bishops has shockingly described the state of the Catholic Church in Latin America by noting that Catholics there proclaim that, "When we need a labor union we go to our parish priest; when we need the word of God we go to the Protestant pastor," and that, "In Latin America the Catholic Church has made an option for the poor and the poor have opted for the Protestant Churches."1, Ralph Martin too, has noted that, in 1991, Pope John Paul II called a consistory to examine what could only be described as a hemorrhage of the Catholic faithful to Evangelical Protestantism.
The cardinals had a lot to say about the spectacular growth of the Evangelical and Pentecostal churches, which, in Latin America in particular, are attracting many Catholics. Cardinal Miguel Obando y Bravo of Managua, Nicaragua, told the Cardinals that a "Protestant explosion" has seen the number of Protestants in Latin America grow from 4 million in 1967 to 30 million in 1985...
A 1986 Gallup Poll revealed that in the preceding 10 years, 5 million Hispanics joined Evangelical and Pentecostal churches, approximately 30 percent of the 17 million Hispanics in the United States. Of these, 64 percent converted to these groups from Catholicism."3 The situation is not limited to Hispanics in or out of the U.S.
The same trend is visible in the United States. American Catholic leaders have also expressed a great concern about the growth of Evangelical and Pentecostal churches in this country, a growth that often comes through Catholics leaving their churches. Here, statistics are hard to come by. Much anecdotal evidence suggests that many members of Pentecostal and independent charismatic churches are former Catholics. This is especially true of regions with a large Catholic population. One researcher who did an informal survey estimates that 30 percent of the 35 million Evangelicals and Pentecostals in the United States are first- or second-generation former Catholics.4 http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=7417
The number of Spanish-speaking evangelicals is growing, in Wichita and across the U.S
JOE RODRIGUEZ AND ICESS FERNANDEZ, The Wichita Eagle
When Milca Molina moved to Wichita from Los Angeles nearly 20 years ago, there were two evangelical churches in the city that had a predominantly Spanish-speaking congregation. Today, there are more than 15, according to Molina, who helped start one of them -- Iglesia Cristiana Nueva Jerusalem, 1650 S. Broadway. Molina serves as associate pastor of the church. Her husband is pastor. "We are reaching out to people," Molina said, "and the churches are growing." Take the Molinas' church, for example. Molina and her husband, Azarel, started the church 15 years ago, and it had fewer than 40 members.
The church now has a congregation of about 300 and is planning to soon purchase its first church building. It currently holds its worship services at the former Kansas Blue Print building.The boom among Hispanic evangelical Christians isn't limited to Wichita.Nationwide, there are now about 10 million Hispanic Protestants, according to the recent Hispanic Churches in American Public Life research project. That number has doubled during the past 10 years, according to the Rev. Samuel Rodriguez Jr., founder and president of the Sacramento, Calif.-based National Hispanic Christian Leadership Conference. The conference represents Hispanic evangelicals in the United States and Puerto Rico.
"This is the Protestant Reformation for Hispanics," Rodriguez said. The growth shouldn't be a surprise.Nationwide, the U.S. Hispanic population grew from 22.4 million in 1990 to an estimated 42.7 million in 2005, according to the U.S. Census Bureau.In Wichita, the population has also increased rapidly. According to 2005 bureau estimates, nearly 51,000 Hispanics lived in Wichita. That number has more than tripled since 1990, according to the bureau. Among all U.S. Hispanics, nearly 70 percent are Catholics. But a report on Hispanics and religion released earlier this year showed that half of Hispanic evangelicals came to the faith from other backgrounds and more than 80 percent of them are former Catholics.
That report -- conducted by the Washington, D.C.-based research groups Pew Hispanic Center and the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life -- said that more than 80 percent of all Hispanic Christian converts cited a "desire for a more direct, personal experience with God" as a reason for their conversion. Few Hispanics -- only 7 percent -- said they left Catholicism because they were dissatisfied with the church's position on certain issues, the report said. http://www.nhclc.org/en/news/number-spanish-speaking-evangelicals-growing-wichita-and-across-us
The hidden exodus: Catholics becoming Protestants (Any other institution that lost one-third of its members would want to know why)
By Thomas Reese, S.J.
The number of people who have left the Catholic church is huge.
We all have heard stories about why people leave. Parents share stories about their children. Academics talk about their students. Everyone has a friend who has left.
While personal experience can be helpful, social science research forces us to look beyond our circle of acquaintances to see what is going on in the whole church.
The U.S. Religious Landscape Survey by the Pew Research Center’s Forum on Religion & Public Life has put hard numbers on the anecdotal evidence: One out of every 10 Americans is an ex-Catholic. If they were a separate denomination, they would be the third-largest denomination in the United States, after Catholics and Baptists. One of three people who were raised Catholic no longer identifies as Catholic.
Any other institution that lost one-third of its members would want to know why. But the U.S. bishops have never devoted any time at their national meetings to discussing the exodus. Nor have they spent a dime trying to find out why it is happening.
Thankfully, although the U.S. bishops have not supported research on people who have left the church, the Pew Center has.
Pew’s data shows that those leaving the church are not homogenous. They can be divided into two major groups: those who become unaffiliated and those who become Protestant. Almost half of those leaving the church become unaffiliated and almost half become Protestant. Only about 10 percent of ex-Catholics join non-Christian religions.
This article will focus on Catholics who have become Protestant. I am not saying that those who become unaffiliated are not important; I am leaving that discussion to another time.
Why do people leave the Catholic church to become Protestant? Liberal Catholics will tell you that Catholics are leaving because they disagree with the church’s teaching on birth control, women priests, divorce, the bishops’ interference in American politics, etc.
Conservatives blame Vatican II, liberal priests and nuns, a permissive culture and the church’s social justice agenda.
One of the reasons there is such disagreement is that we tend to think that everyone leaves for the same reason our friends, relatives and acquaintances have left. We fail to recognize that different people leave for different reasons. People who leave to join Protestant churches do so for different reasons than those who become unaffiliated.
People who become evangelicals are different from Catholics who become members of mainline churches.
Spiritual needs The principal reasons given by people who leave the church to become Protestant are that their “spiritual needs were not being met” in the Catholic church (71 percent) and they “found a religion they like more” (70 percent). Eighty-one percent of respondents say they joined their new church because they enjoy the religious service and style of worship of their new faith.
In other words, the Catholic church has failed to deliver what people consider fundamental products of religion: spiritual sustenance and a good worship service. And before conservatives blame the new liturgy, only 11 percent of those leaving complained that Catholicism had drifted too far from traditional practices such as the Latin Mass.
Dissatisfaction with how the church deals with spiritual needs and worship services dwarfs any disagreements over specific doctrines. While half of those who became Protestants say they left because they stopped believing in Catholic teaching, specific questions get much lower responses. Only 23 percent said they left because of the church’s teaching on abortion and homosexuality; only 23 percent because of the church’s teaching on divorce; only 21 percent because of the rule that priests cannot marry; only 16 percent because of the church’s teaching on birth control; only 16 percent because of the way the church treats women; only 11 percent because they were unhappy with the teachings on poverty, war and the death penalty....
National Catholic Reporter http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CMcBEBYwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fncronline.org%2Fnews%2Fhidden-exodus-catholics-becoming-protestants&ei=sUi5T_7BOsu16AH0h4nlCg&usg=AFQjCNGNQVTZw0IQ6IxWPzB2VEzHYmvDXQ&sig2=bUhjnUFzYrKwyC7lFj-a3g
Norman L. Geisler responds to why some evangelicals leave for Rome (http://www.normgeisler.com/articles/RomanCatholicism/WhyCatholicsLeave.htm), and i think it is much due to the increasing superficiality in evangelical faith in yielding to the society, and the vain attraction of outward form, but that is not the fault of the faith, but of compromising of it, rather than living by effectual faith, which cause Roman Catholics would also attribute for losses of their faith, which is more reflective of society
What’s also been foretold was the prompting by God to have his people to leave the Whore of Babylon mystery religion as described in the book of Revelation. People will be leaving to escape a Christless worship experience where religious syncretism is taught and sin is dressed up as good while that which is good is denounced as evil.
No one denomination can be broad brushed as being “the harlot”; the “harlot” is a Satanic entity or system of thought that rushes into Christless voids, seaking to ensnare the easily deluded. Some of these voids might be dead Catholic or Protestant churches and folks who hunger for God will leave them.
I didn't realize Moses, Jeremiah, or Daniel were Roman Catholic. ;O)
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