Posted on 05/17/2012 5:40:57 PM PDT by Gamecock
Any other institution that lost one-third of its members would want to know why.....
The number of people who have left the Catholic church is huge.
We all have heard stories about why people leave. Parents share stories about their children. Academics talk about their students. Everyone has a friend who has left.
While personal experience can be helpful, social science research forces us to look beyond our circle of acquaintances to see what is going on in the whole church.
The U.S. Religious Landscape Survey by the Pew Research Center’s Forum on Religion & Public Life has put hard numbers on the anecdotal evidence: One out of every 10 Americans is an ex-Catholic. If they were a separate denomination, they would be the third-largest denomination in the United States, after Catholics and Baptists. One of three people who were raised Catholic no longer identifies as Catholic.
Any other institution that lost one-third of its members would want to know why. But the U.S. bishops have never devoted any time at their national meetings to discussing the exodus. Nor have they spent a dime trying to find out why it is happening.
Thankfully, although the U.S. bishops have not supported research on people who have left the church, the Pew Center has.
Pew’s data shows that those leaving the church are not homogenous. They can be divided into two major groups: those who become unaffiliated and those who become Protestant. Almost half of those leaving the church become unaffiliated and almost half become Protestant. Only about 10 percent of ex-Catholics join non-Christian religions. This article will focus on Catholics who have become Protestant. I am not saying that those who become unaffiliated are not important; I am leaving that discussion to another time.
Why do people leave the Catholic church to become Protestant? Liberal Catholics will tell you that Catholics are leaving because they disagree with the church’s teaching on birth control, women priests, divorce, the bishops’ interference in American politics, etc. Conservatives blame Vatican II, liberal priests and nuns, a permissive culture and the church’s social justice agenda.
One of the reasons there is such disagreement is that we tend to think that everyone leaves for the same reason our friends, relatives and acquaintances have left. We fail to recognize that different people leave for different reasons. People who leave to join Protestant churches do so for different reasons than those who become unaffiliated. People who become evangelicals are different from Catholics who become members of mainline churches.
Spiritual needs
The principal reasons given by people who leave the church to become Protestant are that their “spiritual needs were not being met” in the Catholic church (71 percent) and they “found a religion they like more” (70 percent). Eighty-one percent of respondents say they joined their new church because they enjoy the religious service and style of worship of their new faith.
In other words, the Catholic church has failed to deliver what people consider fundamental products of religion: spiritual sustenance and a good worship service. And before conservatives blame the new liturgy, only 11 percent of those leaving complained that Catholicism had drifted too far from traditional practices such as the Latin Mass.
Dissatisfaction with how the church deals with spiritual needs and worship services dwarfs any disagreements over specific doctrines. While half of those who became Protestants say they left because they stopped believing in Catholic teaching, specific questions get much lower responses. Only 23 percent said they left because of the church’s teaching on abortion and homosexuality; only 23 percent because of the church’s teaching on divorce; only 21 percent because of the rule that priests cannot marry; only 16 percent because of the church’s teaching on birth control; only 16 percent because of the way the church treats women; only 11 percent because they were unhappy with the teachings on poverty, war and the death penalty.
The data shows that disagreement over specific doctrines is not the main reason Catholics become Protestants. We also have lots of survey data showing that many Catholics who stay disagree with specific church teachings. Despite what theologians and bishops think, doctrine is not that important either to those who become Protestant or to those who stay Catholic.
People are not becoming Protestants because they disagree with specific Catholic teachings; people are leaving because the church does not meet their spiritual needs and they find Protestant worship service better.
Nor are the people becoming Protestants lazy or lax Christians. In fact, they attend worship services at a higher rate than those who remain Catholic. While 42 percent of Catholics who stay attend services weekly, 63 percent of Catholics who become Protestants go to church every week. That is a 21 percentage-point difference.
Catholics who became Protestant also claim to have a stronger faith now than when they were children or teenagers. Seventy-one percent say their faith is “very strong,” while only 35 percent and 22 percent reported that their faith was very strong when they were children and teenagers, respectively. On the other hand, only 46 percent of those who are still Catholic report their faith as “very strong” today as an adult.
Thus, both as believers and as worshipers, Catholics who become Protestants are statistically better Christians than those who stay Catholic. We are losing the best, not the worst.
Some of the common explanations of why people leave do not pan out in the data. For example, only 21 percent of those becoming Protestant mention the sex abuse scandal as a reason for leaving. Only 3 percent say they left because they became separated or divorced.
Becoming Protestant
If you believed liberals, most Catholics who leave the church would be joining mainline churches, like the Episcopal church. In fact, almost two-thirds of former Catholics who join a Protestant church join an evangelical church. Catholics who become evangelicals and Catholics who join mainline churches are two very distinct groups. We need to take a closer look at why each leaves the church.
Fifty-four percent of both groups say that they just gradually drifted away from Catholicism. Both groups also had almost equal numbers (82 percent evangelicals, 80 percent mainline) saying they joined their new church because they enjoyed the worship service. But compared to those who became mainline Protestants, a higher percentage of those becoming evangelicals said they left because their spiritual needs were not being met (78 percent versus 57 percent) and that they had stopped believing in Catholic teaching (62 percent versus 20 percent). They also cited the church’s teaching on the Bible (55 percent versus 16 percent) more frequently as a reason for leaving. Forty-six percent of these new evangelicals felt the Catholic church did not view the Bible literally enough. Thus, for those leaving to become evangelicals, spiritual sustenance, worship services and the Bible were key. Only 11 percent were unhappy with the church’s teachings on poverty, war, and the death penalty Ñ the same percentage as said they were unhappy with the church’s treatment of women. Contrary to what conservatives say, ex-Catholics are not flocking to the evangelicals because they think the Catholic church is politically too liberal. They are leaving to get spiritual nourishment from worship services and the Bible.
Looking at the responses of those who join mainline churches also provides some surprising results. For example, few (20 percent) say they left because they stopped believing in Catholic teachings. However, when specific issues were mentioned in the questionnaire, more of those joining mainline churches agreed that these issues influenced their decision to leave the Catholic church. Thirty-one percent cited unhappiness with the church’s teaching on abortion and homosexuality, women, and divorce and remarriage, and 26 percent mentioned birth control as a reason for leaving. Although these numbers are higher than for Catholics who become evangelicals, they are still dwarfed by the number (57 percent) who said their spiritual needs were not met in the Catholic church.
Thus, those becoming evangelicals were more generically unhappy than specifically unhappy with church teaching, while those who became mainline Protestant tended to be more specifically unhappy than generically unhappy with church teaching. The unhappiness with the church’s teaching on poverty, war and the death penalty was equally low for both groups (11 percent for evangelicals; 10 percent for mainline).
What stands out in the data on Catholics who join mainline churches is that they tend to cite personal or familiar reasons for leaving more frequently than do those who become evangelicals. Forty-four percent of the Catholics who join mainline churches say that they married someone of the faith they joined, a number that trumps all doctrinal issues. Only 22 percent of those who join the evangelicals cite this reason.
Perhaps after marrying a mainline Christian and attending his or her church’s services, the Catholic found the mainline services more fulfilling than the Catholic service. And even if they were equally attractive, perhaps the exclusion of the Protestant spouse from Catholic Communion makes the more welcoming mainline church attractive to an ecumenical couple.
Those joining mainline communities also were more likely to cite dissatisfaction of the Catholic clergy (39 percent) than were those who became evangelical (23 percent). Those who join mainline churches are looking for a less clerically dominated church.
Lessons from the data
There are many lessons that we can learn from the Pew data, but I will focus on only three.
First, those who are leaving the church for Protestant churches are more interested in spiritual nourishment than doctrinal issues. Tinkering with the wording of the creed at Mass is not going to help. No one except the Vatican and the bishops cares whether Jesus is “one in being” with the Father or “consubstantial” with the Father. That the hierarchy thinks this is important shows how out of it they are.
While the hierarchy worries about literal translations of the Latin text, people are longing for liturgies that touch the heart and emotions. More creativity with the liturgy is needed, and that means more flexibility must be allowed. If you build it, they will come; if you do not, they will find it elsewhere. The changes that will go into effect this Advent will make matters worse, not better.
Second, thanks to Pope Pius XII, Catholic scripture scholars have had decades to produce the best thinking on scripture in the world. That Catholics are leaving to join evangelical churches because of the church teaching on the Bible is a disgrace. Too few homilists explain the scriptures to their people. Few Catholics read the Bible.
The church needs a massive Bible education program. The church needs to acknowledge that understanding the Bible is more important than memorizing the catechism. If we could get Catholics to read the Sunday scripture readings each week before they come to Mass, it would be revolutionary. If you do not read and pray the scriptures, you are not an adult Christian. Catholics who become evangelicals understand this.
Finally, the Pew data shows that two-thirds of Catholics who become Protestants do so before they reach the age of 24. The church must make a preferential option for teenagers and young adults or it will continue to bleed. Programs and liturgies that cater to their needs must take precedence over the complaints of fuddy-duddies and rubrical purists.
Current religious education programs and teen groups appear to have little effect on keeping these folks Catholic, according to the Pew data, although those who attend a Catholic high school do appear to stay at a higher rate. More research is needed to find out what works and what does not.
The Catholic church is hemorrhaging members. It needs to acknowledge this and do more to understand why. Only if we acknowledge the exodus and understand it will we be in a position to do something about it.
Catholics trying to distract and get it off topic isn’t going to work.
The RCC had removed the serving of the cup to the communicants during communion for centuries.
The blood is for the forgiveness of sins. The church has taken from in front of the people that which remembers the most important part of what we are to remember, the blood sacrifice for the forgiveness for our sins.
All the rest of the nit picky nonsense focusing on what I allegedly said or meant or whatever, is simply trying to confuse the issue and is just smoke and mirrors to try to keep people’s attention from the obvious.
The RCC had no right or authority to change what Jesus handed down to us. HE said to eat AND drink.
Whatever happened to taking Jesus’ words literally anyway?
Dear Sister, I have posted Catholic teaching on this thread that explains that the consecrated wine in the cup and the consecrated bread both contain the same Body ,Blood ,Soul and Divinity of Christ and partaking in just the consecrated bread or cup are the same.
Both are the Whole Resurrected Christ,The Whole Crucified Christ And Christ Incarnate, Christ who shed His Blood for us. At the point of Consecration God allows us to participate in the ONE NOW with God that is all one event of Christ Incarnate,Christ Crucified, Christ Resurrected.
"Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever."-Heb 13:8
Perhaps this might help you understand?
I wish you a Blessed Evening
1 Corinthians 11:23-26 For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, 24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, “This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.”
25 In the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes.
For some reason, Catholics seem to think that our not accepting their teaching is due to lack of understanding. That is not the case. We understand that the Catholic church teaches that the blood is contained in the body.
We think it's wrong. For one thing, if the blood were not shed, if the blood were still in the body, Jesus would still be alive and there would be no forgiveness of sins.
The blood was shed. It ran out of his body.
We also understand the implications of removing the participation of the cup in the communion service by the communicants. It takes the observance of the blood sacrifice and removes it from being in front of them as it ought.
And it's just downright disobedient to the command and instruction of Jesus Himself.
He told them to drink. Nobody, not the *Church*, not a pope, not a magisterium, has the right or privilege to change what Jesus taught.
we don't not accept the Catholic church explanation because we don't understand it but rather because we DO understand what it is teaching and recognize it as wrong.
We Have both the Flesh and Blood in the Bread as well as the cup,therefore we are drinking liquid and eating the whole Christ even in the Consecrated Bread or the consecrated wine.
Now , Ping everyone in your list and answer the question if you think Jesus is God and exists eternally and there was never a time that Jesus did not exist?
A non answer shows you don't believe Jesus is God
Good Night
Again, this is not a case of me not understanding the Roman Catholic doctrine of the Eucharist, nor the reasons for including the cup, then excluding the cup then including it again in some places. I realize that Catholics are expected to believe what they are told to believe and questioning the reason is frowned upon. One more time, the reason this came up IN THIS CONTEXT is simply to draw a distinction between what Jesus says to do in remembrance of Him and what gets done by an organization that claims to BE His one, true church. The irony being that one of the major components of the New Covenant - the blood of Christ - is missing in the observance that the faithful receive. No matter the reasons given for why it might have been changed nor the rationalizations for how it really is all the same anyway with just the bread, the startling truth is the blood is what makes atonement for the soul, makes propitiation for sin, and it has been taken out of the "sacrament" for a long time. We tied that in with how it seems Catholics don't really grasp the critical place of the blood in the satisfactory payment for sins and, instead, somehow view their actions as having to add to it to "expiate" their sins in order to be saved.
If it's all the same really, why then was the cup added back after hundreds of years? If "partaking in just the consecrated bread or cup are the same", what changed the magesterium's mind after VII that now includes the cup if the congregant wants it?
That has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic at hand. It's totally irrelevant.
Jesus made the distinction. He did not say that the bread represented His blood as well as His body and He did not say that the cup represented His body as well as His blood.
HE made the distinction. Both are necessary parts of the communion ceremony.
Nobody, no matter what delusions of grandeur they have, has the right to change what Jesus handed down to us.
The bread represents His body, broken for us; the cup represents his blood shed for us.
Is it suppose to remain unknown so as not to show bias,
are you a Catholic Christian or non-Catholic Christian?
When the time comes and it will, I shall give you the biggest hug and answer any questions you have about the
faith.
The Remnant is Roman Catholic, states prophecy.
I do not reveal my religious beliefs or any other identity information.
The *remnant* of WHAT?
Does Scripture state it?
I do not reveal my religious beliefs or any other identity information.
~ ~ ~
No offense but maybe you kinda do.
You are kind NL, a wise witness to the faith. And your
grade school, maybe high school English teacher must be
very proud of you. You have a way with words.
+ + +
I am drawn to the prophetic. Dear non-Catholic brothers
and sisters, Glynda’s messages are also posted on a couple of CATHOLIC prophecy sites. It’s good to read the Protestant and Catholic messages from Heaven, they are
saying the same.
Here is her latest:
message to Glynda
Thursday, May 31, 2012
The New Age Is Beginning
My people, so many of you are completely unaware of the importance of the time you live in on the earth. All those in heaven know and rejoice, yet so many of you go on with your day to day lives as though nothing had changed, when everything has changed.
The new age is beginning and much will deteriorate from here. My glory will arise and shine on my appointed ones, those I have chosen to use in this time. Many shall reject the works they shall do, just as they rejected My Son, and they will be judged.
(When He spoke this, I saw judgment falling quickly on those who mocked the end times miracles)
Many shall REJECT the miracles they see, however great they are, and they shall be great. Many shall try to explain away My mighty power in that time for I shall perform feats no man has ever seen before.
Miracles of a nature unbeknownst to man shall happen before your very eyes, My children, and many shall see and believe, in spite of those who mock.
You must walk carefully now before Me, little ones, for the enemy has set many new snares and traps for you, hoping to lure you away from My presence. He will succeed in luring some of you for a time and weaken you in this way.
(I saw in the spirit that the enemy’s goal is to weaken us for further attack in this way)
You must be strong in Me at all times if you are to survive what is coming in the near future. I have given you advance warning that you may prepare for all that lies ahead, for when it happens, it will happen all at once. Many seemingly simultaneous events will occur one after another after another, that is why there will be no time to prepare then.
Ready yourselves for My Son’s soon return. Walk with Me in all your ways. Listen for My voice. Simplify your lives so that you may hear Me better. Be in My word that I may speak to you there.
You live in a serious time, My children. Do not underestimate the power of the enemy of your souls. Be ever vigilant against his wiles. Watch and pray at all times, that you may finish your race with courage and conviction.
Isaiah 60:1-2: Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the Lord is risen upon thee. For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the Lord shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.
Isaiah 28:22: Now therefore be ye not mockers, lest your bands be made strong: for I have heard from the Lord GOD of hosts a consumption, even determined upon the whole earth.
http://www.wingsofprophecy.blogspot.com
A non answer simply shows that I recognize baiting, deflection and diversion when I see it and I refuse to fall for it.
“it’s a good argument, which is no surprise since it’s Biblical truth and all; but it will only work on people smart enough to comprehend “everlasting life”
~ ~ ~
Yes!!!=~!
Everyone needs to believe the words of John 6. You can
only progress spiritually by receiving the Eucharist. Otherwise you remain a “spiritual baby “...Our Lord’s words.
God Speaks Will You Listen
11/06/07
...After the warning, there will only be one church. All Protestant denominations will have no reason to exist. For all Protestants will see the truth in my Catholic Church. Those Protestants who in their pride reject my truth, will become apostate and persecute my true Catholics. Many Protestants WILL ENTER MY CHURCH because of the warning.
The ungodly will persecute my faithful remnant because the ungodly rejected my mercy. A fierce persecution will rage like a fire in certain parts of your world. Europe, North America,and Latin America will persecute my faithful severely.My son, the largest number of converts will come from the pagan religions. Many Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, and tribal peoples will accept my mercy and truth because of the warning. My church will experience a large amount of growth in those areas. I will need my faithful to teach these converts. Many miracles will take place at this time. Bilocation and other miracles assisted by my angels will occur. My faithful may be teaching in different areas of the world. After the warning, there will only be a short time given to mankind to repent. If no repentance is done, I will allow Satan and the anti-christ to chastise a sinful generation. At this time, many faithful will be: called home, persecuted, martyred, and taken to my refuges. Only those who are not spiritual babies with my divine life residing in their souls will endure those days and enter my era of peace.
My son, at baptism all my children receive sanctifying grace, but many do not progress beyond spiritual infancy. I will not lose any the Father has given to me. My spiritual babies will come home to be with me to prevent the loss of their souls. A soul WHO DOES NOT partake of my Eucharist remains a SPIRITUAL BABY. Just as a human baby must eat solid food to grow to adulthood, so spiritually you must receive my graces through the sacraments to mature to spiritual adulthood. The body must be fed to grow. Likewise, the soul must be fed to grow and mature. Satan knows this truth. This is why he has deceived many of my people with false interpretations of my scriptures...
http://www.godspeakswillyoulisten.org
John 6:55
He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day.
I just posted the message to Glynda Lomax, a non-Catholic
Christian messenger. No response. Here’s a shorter message
saying the same to Catholic messenger...to Jennifer.
June 2, 2012
message to Jennifer
6/2/12
3:00 PM
My child, up until now My children have failed to listen to My warnings. I tell you this: that the hour is now for justice will thunder and lightning will strike from the Divine throne and pierce the hearts of those who have failed to heed to My mercy, those who loath in obedience to My Commandments and relish in their sinfulness.
There will be no more not knowing the truth for the world will see the truth by way of My warning to mankind. Before this time I will shower My faithful with the graces necessary to live through this chastisement that is about to open up upon the world.
Pray My faithful ones. Pray for the conversion of sinners. Pray for those who remain lukewarm for they are the ones who pierce My heart greatly. My children, I must simplify to purify and I must purify to simplify. Your communications will cease and you will be brought to your knees in a way that only My Father can author. I do not send these words to cause fear; rather in a way that you will understand the greatness of My mercy; the greatness of My love for I am Jesus. Now go forth and prepare your hearts today for it is My mercy and justice that will prevail.
+ + +
read Glynda Lomax’s message...if you haven’t....again
Thursday, May 31, 2012
The New Age Is Beginning
My people, so many of you are completely unaware of the importance of the time you live in on the earth. All those in heaven know and rejoice, yet so many of you go on with your day to day lives as though nothing had changed, when everything has changed.
The new age is beginning and much will deteriorate from here. My glory will arise and shine on my appointed ones, those I have chosen to use in this time. Many shall reject the works they shall do, just as they rejected My Son, and they will be judged.
(When He spoke this, I saw judgment falling quickly on those who mocked the end times miracles)
Many shall REJECT the miracles they see, however great they are, and they shall be great. Many shall try to explain away My mighty power in that time for I shall perform feats no man has ever seen before.
Miracles of a nature unbeknownst to man shall happen before your very eyes, My children, and many shall see and believe, in spite of those who mock.
You must walk carefully now before Me, little ones, for the enemy has set many new snares and traps for you, hoping to lure you away from My presence. He will succeed in luring some of you for a time and weaken you in this way.
(I saw in the spirit that the enemy’s goal is to weaken us for further attack in this way)
You must be strong in Me at all times if you are to survive what is coming in the near future. I have given you advance warning that you may prepare for all that lies ahead, for when it happens, it will happen all at once. Many seemingly simultaneous events will occur one after another after another, that is why there will be no time to prepare then.
Ready yourselves for My Son’s soon return. Walk with Me in all your ways. Listen for My voice. Simplify your lives so that you may hear Me better. Be in My word that I may speak to you there.
You live in a serious time, My children. Do not underestimate the power of the enemy of your souls. Be ever vigilant against his wiles. Watch and pray at all times, that you may finish your race with courage and conviction.
Isaiah 60:1-2: Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the Lord is risen upon thee. For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the Lord shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.
Isaiah 28:22: Now therefore be ye not mockers, lest your bands be made strong: for I have heard from the Lord GOD of hosts a consumption, even determined upon the whole earth.
http://www.wingsofprophecy.blogspot.com
NOTICE HOW OUR LORD SAYS “COMMUNICATIONS WILL CEASE” AND
IN THE OTHER MESSAGE, HE SAYS “SIMPLIFY YOUR LIVES.”
THESE THINGS ARE GOING TO HAPPEN PLUS THE GREAT WARNING.
8 See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, 10 and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority. 11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.
13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, 14 by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. 15 He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him.
1 Corinthians 12:12 12-27 12 For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body— Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit.
14 For the body does not consist of one member but of many. 15 If the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” that would not make it any less a part of the body. 16 And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” that would not make it any less a part of the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, where would be the sense of hearing? If the whole body were an ear, where would be the sense of smell? 18 But as it is, God arranged the members in the body, each one of them, as he chose. 19 If all were a single member, where would the body be? 20 As it is, there are many parts, yet one body.
21 The eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you,” nor again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.” 22 On the contrary, the parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23 and on those parts of the body that we think less honorable we bestow the greater honor, and our unpresentable parts are treated with greater modesty, 24 which our more presentable parts do not require. But God has so composed the body, giving greater honor to the part that lacked it, 25 that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another. 26 If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together.
27 Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it.
Ephesians 2:4-10 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ— by grace you have been saved— 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
Romans 10:8-13 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11 For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. 13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
Acts 4:8-12 8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, “Rulers of the people and elders, 9 if we are being examined today concerning a good deed done to a crippled man, by what means this man has been healed, 10 let it be known to all of you and to all the people of Israel that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead—by him this man is standing before you well. 11 This Jesus is the stone that was rejected by you, the builders, which has become the cornerstone. 12 And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
Nobody gets saved by joining a church. They become part of the body of Christ when they are saved.
When we're saved, we're sealed with the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption. Christians are not going to hell and not going to lose their salvation.
Those prophecies are a bunch of unmitigated nonsense. Get your eyes off people and onto Jesus.
2 Corinthians 11:13-15 13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 15 So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.
2 Timothy 4:1-4 I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom: 2 preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. 3 For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, 4 and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.
What are the credentials of all these so-called *prophets* that you keep quoting?
On what basis are their words considered true?
How have they received their *revelations*?
Have they been correct 100% of the time as required by God?
Why should we accept their words as true?
For that matter, why should we accept them at all?
Rather than me continuing to explain this ,here is the explanation from New Advent which ANY Catholic would agree...
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04175a.htm
Excerpts
Regarding the merits of the Utraquist controversy, if we assume the doctrinal points involved — viz. the absence of a Divine precept imposing Communion under both kinds, the integral presence and reception of Christ under either species, and the discretionary power of the Church over everything connected with the sacraments that is not divinely determined the question of giving or refusing the chalice to the laity becomes purely practical and disciplinary, and is to be decided by a reference to the two fold purpose to be attained, of safeguarding the reverence due to this most august sacrament and of facilitating and encouraging its frequent and fervent reception. Nor can it be doubted that the modern Catholic discipline best secures these ends. The danger of spilling the Precious Blood and of other forms of irreverence; the inconvenience and delay in administering the chalice to large numbers — the difficulty of reservation for Communion outside of Mass: the not unreasonable objection on hygienic and other grounds, to promiscuous drinking from the same chalice, which of itself alone would act as a strong deterrent to frequent Communion in the case of a great many otherwise well-disposed people; these and similar “weighty and just reasons” against the Utraquist practice are more than sufficient to justify the Church in forbidding it. Of the doctrinal points mentioned above, the only one that need be discussed here is the question of the existence or non-existence of a Divine precept imposing Communion sub utraque. Of the texts brought forward by Utraquists in proof of such a precept, the command, “Drink ye all of this” (Matthew 26:27), and its equivalent in St. Luke (xxii, 17, i.e. supposing the reference here to be to the Eucharistic and not to the paschal cup), cannot fairly be held to apply to any but those present those on the occasion, and to them only for that particular occasion. Were one to insist that Christ’s action in administering Holy Communion under both kinds to the Apostles at the Last Supper was intended to lay down a law for all future recipients, he should for the same reason insist that several other temporary and accidental circumstances connected with the first celebration of the Eucharist (e.g. the preceding paschal rites, the use of unleavened bread, the taking of the Sacred Species by the recipients themselves) were likewise intended to be obligatory for all future celebrations. The institution under both kinds, or the separate consecration of the bread and wine, belongs essentially, in Catholic opinion, to the sacrificial, as distinct from the sacramental, character of the Eucharist; and when Christ in the words “Do this for a commemoration of me” (Luke 22:19), gave to the Apostles both the command and the power to offer the Eucharistic sacrifice, they understood Him merely to impose upon them and their successors in the priesthood the obligation of sacrificing sub utraque. This obligation the Church has rigorously observed.
In John 6:54, Christ says: “Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you” but in verses 52 and 59 he attributes life eternal to the eating of “this bread” (which is “my flesh for the life of the world”, without mention of the drinking of His blood: “if anyone eat of this bread he shall live forever”. Now the Utraquist interpretation would suppose that in verse 54 Christ meant to emphasize the distinction between the mode of reception “by eating” and the mode of reception “by drinking”, and to include both modes distinctly in the precept He imposes. But such literalism, extravagant in any connection, would result in this case in putting verse 54 in opposition to 52 and 59, interpreted in the same rigid way. From which we may infer that whatever special significance attached to the form of expression employed in verse 54, Christ did not have recourse to that form for the purpose of promulgating a law of Communion sub utraque. The twofold expression is employed by Christ in order to heighten the realism of the promise — to emphasize more vividly the reality of the Eucharistic presence, and to convey the idea that His Body and Blood were to be the perfect spiritual aliment, the food and drink, of the faithful. In the Catholic teaching on the Eucharist this meaning is fully verified. Christ is really and integrally received under either kind; and from the sacramental point of view it is altogether immaterial whether this perfect reception takes place after the analogy in the natural order of solid or of liquid food alone, or after the analogy of both combined (cf. III below). In 1 Corinthians 11:28, to which Utraquists sometimes appeal, St. Paul is concerned with the preparation required for a worthy reception of the Eucharist. His mention of both species, “the bread and chalice”, is merely incidental, and implies nothing more than the bare fact that Communion under both kinds was the prevailing usage in Apostolic times. From the verse immediately preceding (27) a difficulty might be raised against the dogmatic presuppositions of the great majority of Utraquists, and an argument advanced in proof of the Catholic doctrine of the integral presence and reception of Christ under either species. “Whosoever”, says the Apostle, “shall eat this bread or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord” i.e. whoever receives either unworthily is guilty of both. But it is unnecessary to insist on this argument in defence of the Catholic position. We are justified in concluding that the N.T. contains no proof of the existence of a Divine precept binding the faithful to Communicate under both kinds. It will appear, further, from the following historical survey, that the Church has never recognized the existence of such a precept.
Dear Sister, either you believe Christ always existed before the Incarnation (which is Christianity) or you don't(which is not Christian belief)
Perhaps, even the protestants you ping would like to know so they can help you with this if you don't believe Christ always existed. I think it might be a good idea to face this and debate with others if you have doubt about this
To truly love others is to help them overcome error
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