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To: BroJoeK
Interbreeding experiments to test this rule have been done innumerable times, and always hold true.

I have not seen any actually presented by the Evolutionists. You, for exampe, gave me the zebra example about breed selection inside a species, that only becomes an example of speciation by carefully choosing the definition of a species to fit the mythology.

Yes, there's no physical evidence suggesting that natural evolution in large creatures happens on time scales of less than many thousands of generations

That should have closed the argument for anyone interested in science rather than in storytelling.

But abundant evidence suggests separated populations (breeds, sub-species) continue to evolve until interbreeding becomes difficult and finally impossible

Yes, and then the boundary that prohibits further evolution is reached and no speciation happens. That a train goes from Boston to New York in no prove it also goes to San Francisco.

So what exactly is your problem with it?

That evidentiary it is false.

178 posted on 05/30/2012 5:09:52 PM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: annalex
annalex from post #176: "The boundary is a population, let's call it Species Proper, that can interbreed."

Throughout this thread you've invented mythical terms for things which don't exist in the real world.
Among those are:

So regardless of what results breeders & ordinary scientists (aka "evolution cult authorities") achieve in laboratories, the "annalex species boundary" excludes any evidence of "Species Proper" violations.

My response is: your terms and their definitions are not scientific.

annalex from #178, referring to experiments in interbreeding among different sub-species, species & genera:
"I have not seen any actually presented by the Evolutionists.
You, for exampe, gave me the zebra example about breed selection inside a species, that only becomes an example of speciation by carefully choosing the definition of a species to fit the mythology."

First, I gave no examples defined as "breed selection inside a species" -- that is another of your weird expressions, which you use to avoid the scientifically accurate descriptions of evolution: 1) "descent with modifications" and 2) "natural selection".

Second, the scientific definition of different "species" is what it is -- groups which cannot normally interbreed, and/or produce non-viable offspring.
So, if that definition doesn't match up with the "annalex Species Proper", how is it the fault of scientists?

Examples of results of interbreeding attempts are mentioned in standard references which discuss the differences between sub-species, species and genera.
Typically "sub-species" readily interbreed and different "genera" cannot, while "species" interbreed only under human controlled conditions.
On this thread we've already mentioned examples of Zebras, Elephants, cattle, and bears among others.

Here's the summation: Instead of a hard and fast "boundary" there's a wide range of increasing difficulty interbreeding between sub-species, species and genera.

And even among certain genera, the imaginary "Species Proper boundary" would not apply, for example cattle (genus bos) plus bison (genus bison) = the viable "beefalo".

annalex referring to evidence of natural evolution operating over many millions of years:
"That should have closed the argument for anyone interested in science rather than in storytelling."

And exactly what scientific rule says scientists can't deal with evidence which spans more than a few thousand years?

annalex: "Yes, and then the boundary that prohibits further evolution is reached and no speciation happens.

You have in no sense defined or provided scientific evidence of a "species boundary", and so it remains just a myth in your mind.
In reality, scientific evidence of speciation is found in every large biological group.
Only willful ignorance refuses to see it.

179 posted on 06/01/2012 10:54:02 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective....)
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