Last time around, the lamestream pressed raised the Mormon issue constantly, in an effort to make Evangelicals look like bigots.
My response then was that it was not Romney’s Mormon faith that was the problem—it was the fact that he was a proabortion, pro-gay marriage, high-taxing, big-spending liberal.
That is still true, and even more disturbing political positions have come to light. But I also think his Mormon faith IS a problem.
I’m sorry, I know that there are well-intentioned Mormons in the forum. As a Catholic, I don’t believe in their religion, and they don’t believe in mine, which makes us even at least in that regard.
But I have become a lot more aware that there ARE problems with Romney’s Mormon faith. He belongs by birth to the privileged class of high-ranking Mormons who govern the LDS church, and apparently tell everyone else what to believe. How else to explain that although most Mormons are fairly conservative, they loyally support politicians like Dingy Harry and Mitt Romney, no matter WHAT they say or do?
Romney is winning this primary partly because of the RINO establishment, and the pseudo-conservative talking heads. But he is also winning because the Mormon states are front-loaded, and Mormons have turned out obediently to vote for him in very large numbers—even though he does not represent what I thought the LDS stood for.
I obey my bishop, ordinarily. But not if he violates the known teachings of the Catholic Church. Mormons don’t seem to make that distinction. Dingy Harry is a corrupt, left-wing mobster, but that doesn’t seem to matter to them. And that problem gets much worse with Bishop Romney, who seems to think he is the promised LDS Messiah. That wouldn’t be so disturbing if they didn’t seem to think so, too.
Here's historical back-up/reinforcement to your comment that Romney thinks he's "the promised LDS Messiah" -- in case anybody comes on this thread and questions it.
First, from Mitt's father, George Romney:
“Anyone can look at the words of the Prophet Joseph Smith... Brigham Young and others.... I have always felt that they meant that sometime the question of whether we are going to proceed on the basis of the Constitution would arise and at this point government leaders who were Mormons would be involved in answering that question.”- George Romney, interview in “A Man’s Religion and American Politics: An Interview with Governor Romney,” Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, Autumn 1967, v. 2, p. 25
See Lds General Conference coverage of White Horse prophecy [General Conferences are those two-per-year...each April and October...church-wide official LDS, Inc. conferences held in Salt Lake City]:
Which General Conferences rec'd mentions from official Lds leaders?
* October, 1912? Check (by Lds "prophet" Joseph F. Smith -- nephew of Joseph Smith)
* October, 1922? Check
* October, 1928? Check
* April, 1933? Check
* April, 1942? Check (by eventual Lds "prophet" Harold B. Lee)
* October, 1942? Check
* April, 1946? Check
* April, 1948? Check (by eventual Lds "prophet" Ezra Taft Benson)
* April, 1949? Check
* April, 1950? Check (by eventual Lds "prophet" Joseph Fielding Smith)
* October, 1952? Check (by eventual Lds "prophet" Harold B. Lee)
* October, 1961? check (by eventual Lds "prophet" Ezra Taft Benson)
* April, 1963? check (by eventual Lds "prophet" Ezra Taft Benson)
That's over a dozen references in about 50 years' time! Sure a lot of General Conference "to do" 'bout White-Horse 'nothin'ness' - eh, Joseph????
Here are those General Conference references (per Reaganaut)...and I'll include the rest of her citations next post:
“Joseph Smith... predicted that the time would come, ‘when the Constitution of our country would hang as it were by a thread, and that the Latter-day Saints above all other people in the world would come to the rescue.” - Prophet Joseph F. Smith, Conference Report, October 1912, p. 11
“Now, these are the commandments of God, the principles contained in these commandments of the great Eternal are the principles that underly the Constitution of our country and all just laws. Joseph Smith, the prophet, was inspired to affirm and ratify this truth, and he further predicted that the time would come, when the Constitution of our country would hang as it were by a thread, and that the Latter-day Saints above all other people in the world would come to the rescue of that great and glorious palladium of our liberty.” - Prophet Joseph F. Smith, Conference Report, October 1912, p. 11
“My brethren and sisters, I hope that we will go home from this conference determined as a great body of people, to stand for law, order, righteousness, justice and peace on earth and good will among all men. I believe as the Prophet Joseph has written, that the day would come when there would be so much of disorder, of secret combinations taking the law into their own hands, tramping upon Constitutional rights and the liberties of the people, that the Constitution would hang as by a thread. Yes, but it will still hang, and there will be enough of good people, many who may not belong to our Church at all, people who have respect for law and for order, and for Constitutional rights, who will rally around with us and save the Constitution. I have never read that that thread would be cut. It will hang; the Constitution will abide and this civilization, that the Lord has caused to be built up, will stand fortified through the power of God, by putting from our hearts all that is evil, or that is wrong in the sight of God, by our living as we should live, acceptable to him.” - Apostle Charles W. Nibley, Conference Report, October 1922, p. 40
“The Prophet Joseph told us that he saw the day when even the Constitution of the United States would be torn and hang as by a thread. But, thank the Lord, the thread did not break. He saw the day when this people would be a balance of power to come to its defense. The Book of Mormon prophecies concerning the future of America have been referred to in our hearing during this conference, wherein it is stated that this nation, though it becomes a mighty nation, still it can stand in security here only as it serves the God of this land. That conception was in the hearts of the men who founded America.” - Apostle Melvin J. Ballard, Conference Report, October 1928, p. 108
“I believe that it is the destiny of the Latter-day Saints to support the Constitution of the United States. The Prophet Joseph Smith is alleged to have said—and I believe he did say it—that the day would come when the Constitution would hang as by a thread. But he saw that the thread did not break, thank the Lord, and that the Latter-day Saints would become a balance of power, with others, to preserve that Constitution. If there is—and there is one part of the Constitution hanging as by a thread today—where do the Latter-day Saints belong? Their place is to rally to the support of that Constitution, and maintain it and defend it and support it by their lives and by their vote. Let us not disappoint God nor his prophet. Our place is fixed.” - Apostle Melvin J. Ballard, Conference Report, April 1933, p. 127
“The Prophet Joseph told us that he saw the day when even the Constitution of the United States would be torn and hang as by a thread.... He saw the day when this people would be a balance of power to come to its defense.” - Apostle Melvin J. Ballard, Conference Report, October 1928, p. 108
“You and I have heard all our lives that the time may come when the Constitution may hang by a thread. I do not know whether it is a thread, or a small rope by which it now hangs, but I do know that whether it shall live or die is now in the balance.” - Apostle J. Reuben Clark, Conference Report, October 1942, p. 58
“How long will it be before the words of the prophet Joseph will be fulfilled? He said if the Constitution of the United States were saved at all it must be done by this people. It will not be many years before these words come to pass. When the Constitution of the United States hangs, as it were, upon a single thread, they will have to call for the Mormon Elders to save it from utter destruction; and they will step forth and do it. . . . if it is sustained on this land of Joseph, it will be done by us and our posterity.” - Apostle Mark E. Peterson, Conference Report, April 1946, p. 171
“[Joseph Smith] said if the Constitution of the United States were saved at all it must be done by this people. It will not be many years before these words come to pass. When the Constitution of the United States hangs, as it were, upon a single thread, they will have to call for the ‘Mormon Elders to save it from utter destruction; and they will step forth and do it.”- Apostle Mark E. Peterson, Conference Report, April 1946, p. 171
“Joseph Smith... [said] the time would come when the Constitution would hang as by a thread and at that time when it was thus in jeopardy, the elders of this Church would step forth and save it from destruction. Why the elders of this Church?... ‘We alone know by revelation as to how the Constitution came into being, and we, alone, know by revelation the destiny of this nation.” - Prophet Harold B. Lee, Conference Report, October 1952, p. 18
“But beyond all that, the Latter-day Saints have a responsibility, that may be better understood when we recall the prophecy of Joseph Smith who declared that ‘the time would come when ( the destiny and ) the Constitution of these United States would hang as it were by a thread, and that this people, the sons of Zion, would rise up and save it from threatened destruction.’ (J. of D., Vol. 7:15) I want to ask you to consider the meaning of that prophecy, in the light of the declaration of the prophets of the Book of Mormon times, who declared that this land was a choice land above all other lands, and would be free from bondage and from captivity, and from all other nations under heaven, if they will but serve the God of this land, even our Savior, Jesus Christ. (Ether 2:12)” - Prophet Harold B. Lee, Conference Report, April 1942, p. 87
“It was Joseph Smith who has been quoted as having said that the time would come when the Constitution would hang as by a thread and at that time when it was thus in jeopardy, the elders of this Church would step forth and save it from destruction. Why the elders of this Church? Would it be sacrilegious to paraphrase the words of the Apostle Peter, and say that the Constitution of the United States could be saved by the elders of this Church because this Church and this Church alone has the words of eternal life? We alone know by revelation as to how the Constitution came into being, and we, alone, know by revelation the destiny of this nation. The preservation of ‘life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness’ can be guaranteed upon no other basis than upon a sincere faith and testimony of the divinity of these teachings.” - Prophet Harold B. Lee, Conference Report, October 1952, p. 18
“[Joseph Smith] said the time would come when this Constitution would hang as by a thread, and this is true.... ‘Now I tell you it is time the people of the United States were waking up with the understanding that if they don’t save the Constitution from the dangers that threaten it, we will have a change of government.’” - Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith, Conference Report, April 1950, p. 159
“I must not take more time but to add this: The statement has been made that the Prophet said the time would come when this Constitution would hang as by a thread, and this is true. There has been some confusion, however, as to just what he said following this. I think that Elder Orson Hyde has given us a correct interpretation wherein he says that the Prophet said the Constitution would be in danger. Said Orson Hyde: I believe he said something like this — that the time would come when the Constitution and the country would be in danger of an overthrow; and said he: ‘If the Constitution be saved at all, it will be by the Elders of this Church.’ I believe this is about the language, as nearly as I can recollect it. (Journal of Discourses, 6:152.) Now I tell you it is time the people of the United States were waking up with the understanding that if they don’t save the Constitution from the dangers that threaten it, we will have a change of government.” - Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith, Conference Report, April 1950, p. 159
[Joseph Smith] foresaw the time when the destiny of the nation would be in danger and would hang as by a thread. Thank God he did not see the thread break. He also indicated the important part that this people should yet play in standing for the principles embodied in these sacred documents – the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.” - Prophet Ezra Taft Benson, Conference Report, April 1948, p. 85
“[Joseph Smith] foresaw the time when the destiny of the nation would be in danger and would hang as by a thread. Thank God he did not see the thread break. He also indicated the important part that this people should yet play in standing for the principles embodied in these sacred documents – the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.” - Prophet Ezra Taft Benson, Conference Report, April 1948, p. 85
“I would like to add this in conclusion. It is said that President Brigham Young, many years ago, made this statement: When the Constitution of the United States hangs, as it were, upon a single thread, they will have to call for Mormon elders to save it from utter destruction: and they will step forth and do it. (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, 2:182, Feb. 18, 1855.) This is recorded in the Journal of Discourses and I presume it is accurate, but however it may be, is it not a possibility, that this Church, in its great leadership and in the power that will come to it in advocating the things that are divine and are right and true as for example the great welfare program, is not possible that when we as a nation shall have exhausted our resources—and we can well do that if we do not turn about—when we have we have reached that point is it not possible that to us will those who are not of us look for guidance and we will be held up as a people who are pointing an economic way that will mean for the economic and spiritual salvation and blessing of our people.” - High Priest Clifford E. Young, Conference Report, April 1949, pp. 75-76
“It is no wonder that the Prophet Joseph said—even though he knew he would suffer martyrdom in this land—‘The Constitution of the United States is a glorious standard; it is founded in the wisdom of God. It is a heavenly banner.’ Yet, according to his contemporaries, he foresaw the time when the destiny of the nation would be in danger and would hang as by a thread. Thank God he did not see the thread break. He also indicated the important part that this people should yet play in standing for the principles embodied in these sacred documents—the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.” - Prophet Ezra Taft Benson, Conference Report, April 1948, p. 85
“… the Lord told the Prophet Joseph Smith there would be an attempt to overthrow the country by destroying the Constitution. Joseph Smith predicted that the time would come when the Constitution would hang, as it were, by a thread, and at that time ‘this people will step forth and save it from the threatened destruction…. It is my conviction that the elders of Israel, widely spread over the nation will at that crucial time successfully rally the righteous of our country and provide the necessary balance of strength to save the institutions of constitutional government.” - Prophet Ezra Taft Benson, Conference Report, October 1961, p. 70
"It is my conviction that the elders of Israel, widely spread over the nation will at that crucial time successfully rally the righteous of our country and provide the necessary balance of strength to save the institutions of constitutional government.” - Prophet Ezra Taft Benson, Conference Report, October 1961, p. 70
“The Prophet Joseph Smith said the time would come when the Constitution would hang as it were by a thread. Modern-day prophets for the last thirty years have been warning us that we have been rapidly moving in that direction. Fortunately, the Prophet Joseph Smith saw the part the elders of Israel would play in this crisis. Will there be some of us who won’t care about saving the Constitution, others who will be blinded by the craftiness of men, and some who will knowingly be working to destroy it? He that has ears to hear and eyes to see can discern by the Spirit and through the words of God’s mouthpiece that our liberties are being taken.” - Prophet Ezra Taft Benson, Conference Report, April 1963, p. 113
'Twas almost 5 years ago, Cicero -- June of '07 that I posted: Romney candidacy has resurrected last days prophecy of Mormon saving the Constitution ... and you aptly responded:
Interesting story. On a lighter note, I guess we’d better keep an eye out for any Romney agents who are going around looking to purchase a white horse. (post #4)
Other FR threads on the Mormon "White Horse Prophesy":
* JOSEPH SMITH'S "WHITE HORSE" PROPHECY
* Mitt and the White Horse Prophecy
* (Title shortened to fit)Statement of Joseph Smith that the Constitution would hang by a thread
* Fringe LDS Idaho gubernatorial candidate talks up the White Horse prophecy
How generous of you!
MORMONism {p-word} me off!
And I will keep on doing what I am doing
in order to cut the ground from under those
who want an opportunity to be considered equal
with us in the things they boast about.
“How else to explain that although most Mormons are fairly conservative, they loyally support politicians like Dingy Harry and Mitt Romney, no matter WHAT they say or do?”
How do you know LDS voted for Reid? I don’t think LDS voted for Reid, at least in the last election. Lincoln county NV is 70% LDS and only 23% of the voters in Lincoln voted for Reid over Angle, who got 67% of the vote. Now if Reid would have had an R after his name he might have got 90% +. It’s like how most Jews would vote against a republican Jew and for any type of dem, only for LDS the party affiliation is with pubs, and LDS pubs before anyone else, even anyone else more conservative.
Freegards
This time the media, at David AxelSleazey’s direction, will make it so clear what MormonISM has taught regarding Catholicism that moderate Catholics will be too insensed or embarrassed to vote for the LDS inc melchizedek high priest.
“I obey my bishop, ordinarily. But not if he violates the known teachings of the Catholic Church. Mormons don’t seem to make that distinction.”
Well, I don’t think it’s unfair to call Mormonism a cult. It’s getting a bit old, and is well established and pretty respectable at this point, so maybe you can say it’s out-grown that term, but at least, I believe it started out as a classic example of a cult. So, it’s no surprise to me that, like every cult group, the peons are discouraged from questioning the leadership, even if they see them doing things that appear to contradict the groups’ values.
There is some of that pressure in probably every organization, bureaucracy, and religion, but the cults try to really maximize that for the benefit of the unscrupulous leadership.
There really is a blindess which they cannot see thru there process of indoctrination.....and it's very deceptive and well tuned. In time the ability for critical thinking can be lost entirely for some and altered considerably for others. Fear tactics work to keep many in line as well.