Posted on 04/17/2012 9:55:18 AM PDT by Colofornian
I’d end this article here, because that is your answer, should anyone ever ask you. And with the presidential election on the horizon, it is more than likely that Mormonism and Christianity might come up in conversation.
Already the high-profile Christian leaders are being asked about it. Saddleback Church’s Rick Warren sort of answered it by saying that Mormons don’t believe in a trinity as we do, calling it a “sticking point.” And Christian apologist Ed Stetzer completely muffed it recently by asking the question and then dancing completely around it without giving the answer we all so desperately need to hear.
The Truth.
The Truth has become increasingly muddy for Christendom because many evangelicals and almost ALL Mormons believe that Mormons must be Christian, because they say they believe in and love Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.
But the real truth is that Mormonism preaches a different “jesus;” a different “gospel” and a different “truth.” So the answer we need to hear is that Mormonism and biblical Christianity cannot be squared; they are completely different faiths.
If that sounds mean-spirited, it is not. It is a neutral, biblically-based, factual statement. But mean-spirited is most assuredly how this Truth will be portrayed in the months ahead in the national conversation.
This Truth will divide. and if you believe it, then you will be accused of judging other people’s hearts. You will be in excellent company. Look at the approach the Apostle Paul took when he wrote to the early Church in Galations 1:6-9
I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel,which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.
When you put a face on Mormonism or any other faith, whether it’s a presidential candidate, a news talk show pundit or that nice, intelligent, funny, lovely person you work with or live near, it is hard to think of these people as accursed. Yet isn’t that what we all are, young and old, apart from the genuine, biblical Jesus?
* Are fundamentalist Mormons Mormon? (Do mainstream Lds have a "right" to place a definitional boundary around who is "Mormon?"...The answer from Lds "prophet" Gordon B. Hinckley was that "there was no such thing as a fundamentalist Mormon..." Hinckley's answer was to even deny their existence!)
* If the Lds church is the "ONLY true & living church on the face of the earth" (Lds "scripture" -- Doctrines & Covenants 1:30) -- are do Christians have to become Mormons to live with Heavenly Father forever? (Mormon theology says "yes")
And, then there's this question: If Mormonism is 'anti-Christian,' then how can it be considered 'Christian?'
So...a plea for consistency here...
Anybody coming into this thread to rag on the question asked in the headline...
Can we count Catholicism in the non-Christian category?
Yes. Are the people who dog them on FR Christian? Im not sure.
I’ll give you the premise, but I find it to be more worthwhile, and bit harder, to articulate my reservations in the context of why I reject the one and embrace the other:
I have studied Mormonism carefully, for myself and unguided by its detractors and I find much to question, not the least of which is the unsustainable alternating claims of “restoring the Gospel” and relying on it for legitimacy. It’s a very pick-and-choose sort of amalgam that brings to me no light, no warmth, no hint of the truth that is eternally reflected by the very laws of nature and existence. The incongruency of its reason for being and its show of provenance is beyond good sense.
In turn, my own Christian faith is based on no leap into the darkness of doubt, no transitory feeling or warmth, but it is a light of wisdom that shines brighter and brighter the more I question, investigate, and demand that the Truth be more worthy and higher than myself. I seek to let it conform me to all things that are true.
The hard work is within my own journey of faith, not in mounting a defense of it. I trust it because it tells me what I know in my heart to be true: that I am desperately unable to keep it all together, to think my way into peace and salvation. If I could, why would I need a God? Or even a pretty story?
Conversely I know that if salvation is merely deemed to be “correct thinking” about God, then who will arbitrate such thought? Why not the next man who says, “god told me”? This is a deadly fallacy for any civilization, and one we are rapidly descending into.
Moreover, the entire arc of the OT and NT are of a perfect, unified story of how we come to find God. And how He came to find us. To pretend that it was somehow “lost” after our own liberty as humans was founded on its abiding principles [truth] is to set oneself up on shifting sands. And to set up one’s neighbor to say, “what’s the difference?” because non-believers are very astute in their skepticism. No wonder Jesus went to the lost sheep.
I know Christians are admonished by scripture to defend Christianity, and that means pointing out imitations when they crop up, so I understand having to clarify that Mormons aren’t Christians, something that has been pointed out since Joseph and the boys got their religion going. What I don’t understand is why Mormons want everyone to think they are Christian? It may have had its advantages when Christianity faced less antagonism from the the world, but now that Christians and Jews are once again enemy number one, it seems like Mormons would be celebrating their differences.
Why would you say that? Jesus Christ, Word and Sacrament, centers the worship of the Catholic Church. Catholics also believe in the Holy Trinity, God the Father, Christ the Son, and the Holy Spirit, the Paraclete.
Mormons don’t have these beliefs at all.
Likewise, can we count those who believe the Bible “contains the word of God” but is not “the Word of God” in the non-Christian category?
What is the History of Your Church?
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No.
Only the Bible says what happens thousands of years before it happens with accuracy and specificity.
Neither the Book of Mormon, nor the Pearl of Great Price, nor the Quran nor the Koran, nor the writings of Charles Taze Russel do this.
Only the Bible.
“It’s a very pick-and-choose sort of amalgam that brings to me no light, no warmth, no hint of the truth that is eternally reflected by the very laws of nature and existence.”
No “burning in the breast”, then? Related, to have Rick Warren say that the rejection of the trinitarian nature of God is a “sticking point” for acceptance of Mormonism as Christian just points out the vacuum that is much of the contemporary feel-good church. Discernment is not condemnation, but too many feel they’re condemning by pointing out the irreconcilable conflicts between Mormon doctrine and orthodox (in its classic sense) Christianity. Never met a Mormon I didn’t like, but I pray for the salvation of my Mormon friends.
The Catholic Church’s doctrine is closer to Judaism than Christianity.
1. Salvation by works alone
2. God’s presence in ONE location (Eucharist vs Holy of Holies)
3. No salvation outside of the Church (no protestants vs. no gentiles)
4. The view that “God’s house” must be grandiose and expensive (like Solomon’s temple)
5. One individual to communicate with God (Pope vs. High Priest)
6. Neither believe that the sacrifice of Christ paid for our sins forever.
Aside from those similarities I could also point to the selling of indulgences during the Protestant Reformation. Your money in exchange for forgiveness. That’s the same thing the money changers were doing in the synagogues when Jesus overturned their tables and drove them out with a whip.
Odd, I see “catholic”, which means “universal”, but no “Roman Catholic”, which means something completely different.
Not to pick a fight, but “catholic” and “Roman Catholic” are not the same thing. The church at Rome did not exist in AD 33. Paul didn’t get to Rome until over 20 years later, Peter didn’t get to Rome until after Paul was beheaded (IIRC). I understand your position, but it’s probably better not to use that particular date.
Great minds! See my Post #14...
Jesus Christ founded the Catholic Church? NOPE.
The word “Catholic” is never mentioned.
He and the Apostles DID however bring us the Gospel, which Catholicism chooses to cherry pick at some points and completely ignore at other points...
For example, Christ says “this is the blood of the new covenant, poored out for you” and the Catholic Church CREATES the doctrine of trans-substantiation.
The Catholic church doesn’t believe in PERMANENT forgiveness of sins through Christ ALONE. It’s ironic that they celebrate the Body and Blood of Christ but don’t actually accept the meaning of it!
And finally, when Jesus told Peter that he held the keys to the Kingdom he was not referring to literal keys. Rather he was explaining that God would reveal himself to the hearts of men (just as he did with Peter) when asked “who do you say I am?
BTW, when you use the moniker Roman Catholic or RCC it is an automatic note to us that the true knowledge of the Catholic Church is not known. Please do look at these links:
The Rites of the Catholic Church [Catholic Caucus]
One and Many Churches (origins of the Church)
THE RITES OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH -- There are many!
(Cardinal) Newman on Rites and Ceremonies
Did all of you know that there are 22 Catholic Churches? LOL!
Adding The Book of Mormon and claiming it, too, is inspired differs in magnitude but not in kind from throwing out the books of the OT. Or, is the assertion that it's OK to throw out portions of the Scripture but not to add to the Scripture?
Mormons do not believe Jesus Christ, God from God, is our risen Savior which means they are not Christian no matter what they like to call themselves. Those who today are focused on being anti-Mormon and tomorrow focused on being anti-Something else but agree with what Joseph Smith said about the Catholic Church and about Christian denominations or groups other than their own are just like Joseph Smith. They're people who have made up their own religion and claim it's Christian but who in reality are not Christian.
NOPE there will be NO “Mormans” in heaven! NONE!
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