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To: CynicalBear
So would you “clearly” describe how that passage works into the end times? Does Christ fight Armageddon at the same time we are being “caught up” or is that different?

I'm not sure. It seems to me though there is quite enough of a possibility that after He returns, but before raising the dead, He could "fight Armegeddon". That is, the passage in 1 Thess doesn't necessarily preclude something else He might do after He returns. However I think the timeline as far as the raising of the dead and the "rapture" of the believers is concerned is pretty clear. The dead are raised before all believers are taken to Heaven. Whatever may happen before, or even in between isn't necessarily prohibited by Scripture.

All that said, I'm not sure which event or events you're referring to when you say "[Jesus] fights Armeggedon". Just out of curiosity, as again, 1 Thess doesn't say the *only* thing Jesus will do when He returns is raise the dead and then bring all believers to Heaven.

47 posted on 04/01/2012 7:04:24 PM PDT by FourtySeven (47)
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To: FourtySeven

In other words you don’t have a clue as to what scripture teaches about the end times. Oh well, make sure your trust is in Jesus alone.


51 posted on 04/01/2012 7:33:32 PM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: FourtySeven; CynicalBear
All that said, I'm not sure which event or events you're referring to when you say "[Jesus] fights Armeggedon". Just out of curiosity, as again, 1 Thess doesn't say the *only* thing Jesus will do when He returns is raise the dead and then bring all believers to Heaven.

I wonder why so many people MISS this part of the verses from I Thessalonians 4:13-18

" Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage one another with these words."

It seems to be quite clear that the souls of the redeemed who have died in Christ, will be brought back WITH Christ to be reunited with their glorified bodies. Their change happens first, then we who are alive are caught up together WITH them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and then be with him for eternity. We are told to encourage each other with this revelation. Then, in chapter 5 of I Thessalonians, Paul speaks about the Second Coming of Christ upon the earth where ALL eyes will see him and this happens at the end of the seven year Tribulation.

80 posted on 04/01/2012 11:54:37 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: FourtySeven
>> All that said, I'm not sure which event or events you're referring to when you say "[Jesus] fights Armeggedon".<<

Revelation 19: 11And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

17And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

19And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

21And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

86 posted on 04/02/2012 6:38:32 AM PDT by CynicalBear
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