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Locked on 03/14/2012 11:57:15 AM PDT by Religion Moderator, reason:
Childish behavior - all about individual Freepers |
Posted on 03/09/2012 10:46:28 AM PST by Quix
I'm a bit loathe to wade into such again. However, The Lord HAS brought to my awareness a couple of things this past week that kind of goad me into posting. I'm MORE loathe to allow Holy Spirit to go unrepresented on such scores on FR after the recent thrashing His works received on that other locked thread.
I'm NOT interested in going around and around with the more irrationally and unBiblically harsh posters on that other thread. They will likely arrive and rant as they did on that thread. I may or may not respond with pics and gifs. I don't plan to engage them with yet more futile words.
And, the chronically, habitually, generally carpy naysayers can just go suck rock candy or lolly pops. Their reaping is already scheduled. If they want to earn more of such from The Lord, that's their business.
I know the authenticity of Holy Spirit's gifts and workings in my own life. I have to be responsible to His interactions with me and leadings of me in my own life. And, as I feel led, to speak up in behalf of His gifts in this era.
I don't feel responsible to try and bore a hole and pour it in. And, I am not inclined to get two bricks and try and make the camel drink water. Doesn't work with women anyway.
That said . . .
I learned this week that the wife of a close relative of mine was miraculously healed in a Kenneth Copeland service. She had a serious case of . . . [serious]. . . cancer in advanced stages and was not expected to live. Her blood count was 5 but I don't know what aspect of her blood count was 5. Maybe I'll find out and post it later.
My relative had escorted her to the front row where she sat, unable to stand and looking like 'death warmed over' in extreme weakness.
Kenneth instructed his wife Gloria to go down and lay hands on her. She was immediately and totally healed. She went to the Doc for an already scheduled appointment the next day. He said there was no sign of cancer anywhere in her body and that he was dumfounded as he was never wrong.
As I understand it, the medical verification documentation is quite conclusive. She may even publish it all in her own narrative in due course. I'm not inclined to give more info for my privacy.
I think I learned that this last Tuesday evening.
Last Wednesday evening at church, Pastor related the following narrative.
She had been on a mission trip to Guatemala. In one of their gatherings in one of the poorest churches--a ramshackle tin building affair . . . a local church member began to give a message in tongues. This person had never learned English at all.
The woman spoke quite clear English and told of how God was going to give them a newer larger building much better for their church.
The woman had no idea what she had said. When Pastor's team told her what she'd said, she broke down almost in convulsions for joy and in humility over the Lord using her so to bring such a longed for message to her congregation. As I understand it, that did then transpire exactly as she'd declared in a language she did not know.
On the same mission trip, they went to a very wealthy church led by a Pastor who lived in a wealthy home with marble walls etc. Pastor visited the man's opulent home.
Holy Spirit spoke to Pastor and told her that the man was having an affair with his secretary and that Pastor must confront him and call him to repentance. Pastor has a very powerful prophetic gifting though is not per se a prophet.
Pastor told their local tour guide who was in personal relationship with all the pastors of the churches they visited--including this wealthy one. She replied to Pastor: "You'd better be right!"
Pastor confronted him and he admitted it. He did not repent but justified it with sleezey rationalizing that he was 'supposed to love the sheep.'
I felt when Pastor related the story that the man has since, rather soon after that, died but I haven't verified that even with Pastor. She may not know.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
Because she does have a firm understanding of Gods word as most here do recognize, as opposed to those who twist and mangle it in order to support false teachings, but seem not to understand the truths presented clearly in the teachings of His word... which Kenneth Copelands teachings not only do not pass the test of scripture but they diametrically oppose them.
Further we are called to oppose those false teachings and those who promote them and this regardless of their motives for doing so.
You discern a counterfeit teaching not by studying the counterfeit, but by KNOWING the authentic via a broad understanding of God's word and close relationship with Jesus Christ. Not from some false leader spewing his junk on itchy ears in order to build his own empire and adorn his castle on the backs of peoples donations.
And so yes, I would say Boatbums KNOWS exactly what needs to be said and does so....and we all learn to those who have a teachable spirit rather than something else.
Agreed.
Either stop making it personal and return to the issues - or, leave the thread.
Thanks for playing, though and voicing 'your opinion'.
But then God showed him the reality:
"When I thought to know this, it was too painful for me; Until I went into the sanctuary of God;.... then understood I their end..... Surely thou didst set them in slippery places: ....thou castedst them down into destruction...... How are they brought into desolation, as in a moment! they are utterly consumed with terrors."
While on a boat-trip I was shown some of the most elaborate and wealthy homes which were lakeside......by far the most elaborate were owners in the pornography industry. ....and so to do these false teacher charlatins gain their monetwry wealth and their elaborate empires.....
The difference is not so great between them as both promise "experiences" and "feel good" moments as long as you fill their coffers. They both "pimp" out their wares for the unsuspecting to take hold of...at a price....and both lead down a path of destruction when all is said and done.
WHat is the common denominator amongst those who mislead those seeking those "expereinces and "feel good 'Moments........ greed and love of money and the power it welds...and always on the backs of those they swindle money from to attain their earthly desires.
Kenneth Copeland is by far one of the worst offenders along with his wife and family
What are you claming here Quix? That my posting a PRAYER is somehow against the rules. A PRAYER that is directly out of the Bible? Hmmmmm.......
This is not a game when peoples souls hang in the balance PNSN, and I don't see anyone desiring the truth here "Playing" about these critical issues of false teachers and what they promote and the great harm they do to the cause of Christ within the Christian Community.
Furthermore I have not a doubt Jesus takes it seriously as He knows the ultimate price people pay for traveling down a wrong path....and in the end they will see the price it cost...if by the Grace of God they indeed come out they do not do so unscathed.
So no....this is not laughable nor is it playing....though you are free to make fun of posters and "lol" all you want....and seems to me those laughing hardest are those in greater need of the truth.
Indeed...Copeland is one of the worst offenders. He refused to co-operate with investigations though he said otherwise when the cameras were rolling....additionally after the Baker scandal there were organizations in the Christian community who formed a couple of accountability goups in order to keep churches transparent and above ground. ....Copeland refused to have his organization be a part of that.
Most of his "Empire" is owned by family members but it is indirectly...their lawyers have many contracts which secure the entire family's wealth for their lifetime regardless of what might happen to his ministry.
Copeland has even threatened those who tried to co-operate with the various investigations...they were too afraid to speak out as they and their families were threatened. Unfortnately having seen the power the Copelands have used on other members they determined not to speak out.
You’ve read the book of Job, what did you conclude from that account?
I’ve usually observed that
brazenly wrong assumptions obviously contrary to reality and facts
are a consistently reliable route
AWAY from truth
instead of TO truth.
That all Job's *friends* who blamed his afflictions on sin in his life were WRONG!
They are the forerunners of the modern day charismatic movement.
Michael Card has an interesting song about that.....
Job Suite
http://www.uulyrics.com/music/michael-card/song-job-suite-his-story-his-lament-his-god-his-response/
Lyrics.....
These friends of mine are no comfort to me
So deafly they listen, so blindly they see
Their words & their doctrine, they all sound so true
The problem is Lord, they're all wrong about You!
I'm sorry I had missed your post prior....but I do agree with it 100%...... I think not enough in the Christian Community have spoken up strong enough against these deceivers and thus not only do they continue to flourish but there are those now stepping forward who have seen that it "pays" to deceive.
It becomes tricky though when their followers attempt to promote these deceptions....or it at least has seemed they are given the benefit of the doubt in hopes they might see the error of their way. Yet they seem to rebel against scripture given and continue to self encourage a false sense of security.... believing they have something superior to other Christians....when in fact what they stand on has nothing to do with the Christ of the scriptures....but another counterfeit Christ being promoted by those of the leaders they are following rather than the Christ of Christianity.
If God through the ministry of the Holy Spirit dwells inside me, I would think as my Guide and Counselor, He would know the answer to difficult questions. That is WHY we are given the HS in the first place, to lead us into all TRUTH which agrees with the Word since they are one and the same. BTW - Do you think God is bound by His own Word since he watches over it to perform it?
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. John 16:13 NIV
I don’t know about you, but I was cleansed of all unrighteous and spiritually (the heart) reborn when I asked Jesus into my life. If you have missed that Truth I refer you to the following:
And I will give you a new heart, and I will put a new spirit in you. I will take out your stony, stubborn heart and give you a tender, responsive heart. Ezekiel 36:26 NLT - Believers get a new heart, spiritually reborn into God’s family.
Because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, “Abba, Father.” So you are no longer a slave, but a son; and since you are a son, God has made you also an heir. Galatians 4:6-7 NIV — Before they were servants and friends. But now, when you are Born Again, you are a child of God! We have spiritual fellowship that Adam lost for all when he sinned.
“If you love me, you will obey what I command. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.”
Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?”
Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.
“All this I have spoken while still with you. But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid. John 14:15-27 NIV — God is not going to dwell in a corrupt house. Only a spirit that has been renewed by faith in Jesus is acceptable.
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. —— You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you. Romans 8:1-2, 9-11 NIV — I love this verse. There is NOW NO CONDEMNATION. God is not in some distance place. He is my Heavenly Father. We can have an intamcy with God that was not available until Jesus rose from the dead and placed his blood on the Heavenly Mercy Seat.
Also see all of Paul’s writings, heck read the entire New Testament which reveals what the New Birth is all about.
Do you want to rethink what you wrote about the heart? If you think someone is being deceived by their heart, they don’t have the Lord living in them as His Word promises. But if they have been Born Again, there is no deception in the heart. However, it is possible in an unrenewed mind. That is why we are to walk by faith (which resides in the heart), and not the mind or body. And renew our mind with God’s Word so that the spirit and mind and can be in agreement. Deception comes in the mind, not the renewed spirit.
So since you are now a solid proponent of the authority of the Word, is God a murderer, or is He a God of love? Did He send His Word to heal or not? Is 1 Peter 2:24 and Isaiah 53 Truth or not?
I ignored your first few statements because again, you are looking to prove God is evil, and I’m not going down that road as I said in my previous post. You claim that “Truth can only be found in God’s word.” God says He is love and does not change. Jesus says he does the works of his Father and they are one and the same. Is that Truth or not? I’m not trying to be difficult. This is an important point, if you claim that God’s Word is Truth. If God is personally telling you that HE IS LOVE and that HE DOES NOT CHANGE, that means He is either lying or something else is happening in these tough passages where evil is perpetrated. Do you believe a direct quote from God on His character and nature? If not, I think we may be done with this discussion because it will go nowhere if there is no agreement on this foundational point.
Please end the snarkiness. I don’t know if you are trying to provoke me or not. And if I have crossed the line, I apologize. On a Christian thread, I would think there would be much more we agree on than disagree.
ABSOLUTELY INDEED.
THX THX.
This is not going to answer your question. Only the Holy Spirit can reveal what has prevented manifestation of His promises in your life. It could be unforgiveness, unconfessed sin, past hurts, anger or any number of hindrances. I was bitter because I thought God had brought everything on me and I just wanted to end my life. It took much prayer and time in God's Word to build my faith and remove all those roadblocks.
The first step for me was to realize and admit once an for all that God is a GOOD God. Blaming God will short circuit your faith immediately as will fear and unbelief.
If you are Born Again, how do you know? It was based on faith in God's Word and confessing Jesus as your Savior and Lord. Every promise in the Bible is received the same way.
As I read your questions I sense that there is lots of anger, frustration and pain. If that is not the case, I apologize. I can certainly relate if that is the case. I had to reach a point in my life (and I am always working to improve) that I believe God's Word (which is TRUTH) above anything else. God is Spirit and His Word is above the temporal world (which IS subject to change and yield to His Word) where we live.
You see that in the life of Jesus. He operated above natural laws. If a mob tried to kill him, he would simply walk away. Sickness and even death was no big deal. A giant hungry crowd, not a problem for the Lord. He overcame because of the Words he spoke, and because he is the Word made flesh.
We are called to be imitators of Christ. But we are living in a fallen world with satan doing his best to lie, mislead and deceive people away from the Truth. We are surrounded by unbelief, tradition, symptoms, and distractions. Heck, just on this thread there have been multiple posts that are convinced that God does not heal and declare anyone that claims that He does is a heretic! That is not an environment that builds faith because faith comes from hearing God's Word.
I will not be able to convince you. Nor do you want to put faith in someone's testimony or experiences - that will always fail you. You want to put your faith only on the Word. There are hundreds of promises of healing in the Bible. They need to be yours, personally. Get before God and declare those promises until they are grounded in your spirit. That needs to be YOUR TRUTH. Then it will manifest in your life. Sometimes immediately, sometimes a little slower, but God does not lie and His Word can be trusted.
This was dropped in my spirit while I was at the gym. Maybe this helps on some of the greater questions in your post. Prayerfully consider this.
The children of Israel had made their way to the Promised Land and it was right there. All they had to do was possess it. Moses sent 12 spies to search out the land. They came back and reported that it was just as wonderful as God had promised. Two spies, Joshua and Caleb, insisted that they should go up at once and possess it because they were well able. The other 10 insisted it was not possible because there were giants in the land.
There was nothing untrue initially about what the 10 spies reported until they began talking fear and unbelief. There was a HIGHER TRUTH in play. God had GIVEN them the land. It belonged to them. They simply had to take it by faith. They had to see the victory in their hearts before they could physically possess it.
The entire congregation believed the 10 spies that it was not possible - God called this an EVIL REPORT. Because of their collective unbelief, a whole generation died in the wilderness. This was NOT God's will. This was their choice based on what they believed and spoke.
Nobody that believed the evil report entered the Promised Land. Only two people that were alive at that time walked into their inheritance - Joshua and Caleb. Why? Because they believed God had given them the land and they were ready and eager to possess it.
You can read the story in Numbers 13 & 14 and Joshua.
I can assure you in the name of Jesus, that God is more eager for you to be healthy and whole than you could ever imagine. That is why he endured the beatings, the torture, the time on the cross and spiritual death - there was no worst possible punishment for Jesus than being apart from the Father.
This will most likely be my last post on this thread. It has gotten personal and not an environment for discussing the Bible in love. And this week is very exciting and Blessed.
As John prayed for all Believers, I pray for you:
Dear friend, I hope all is well with you and that you are as healthy in body as you are strong in spirit. 3 John 1:2 NLT
WELL PUT.
LUB BRO.
Satan claimed Job had a protective fence set about him and that faithful Job was basically being bribed, an accusation repeated much later in Rev. 12:10.
Sometimes events, however unpleasant for us, must play out even if unknown fully to us.
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