Kenneth Copeland; Tongues as Languages Not Learned etc

That curious, mystifying space between Quix's ears | 9 MAR 2012 | Quix

[Quix]

I'm a bit loathe to wade into such again. However, The Lord HAS brought to my awareness a couple of things this past week that kind of goad me into posting. I'm MORE loathe to allow Holy Spirit to go unrepresented on such scores on FR after the recent thrashing His works received on that other locked thread.

I'm NOT interested in going around and around with the more irrationally and unBiblically harsh posters on that other thread. They will likely arrive and rant as they did on that thread. I may or may not respond with pics and gifs. I don't plan to engage them with yet more futile words.

And, the chronically, habitually, generally carpy naysayers can just go suck rock candy or lolly pops. Their reaping is already scheduled. If they want to earn more of such from The Lord, that's their business.

I know the authenticity of Holy Spirit's gifts and workings in my own life. I have to be responsible to His interactions with me and leadings of me in my own life. And, as I feel led, to speak up in behalf of His gifts in this era.

I don't feel responsible to try and bore a hole and pour it in. And, I am not inclined to get two bricks and try and make the camel drink water. Doesn't work with women anyway.

That said . . .

I learned this week that the wife of a close relative of mine was miraculously healed in a Kenneth Copeland service. She had a serious case of . . . [serious]. . . cancer in advanced stages and was not expected to live. Her blood count was 5 but I don't know what aspect of her blood count was 5. Maybe I'll find out and post it later.

My relative had escorted her to the front row where she sat, unable to stand and looking like 'death warmed over' in extreme weakness.

Kenneth instructed his wife Gloria to go down and lay hands on her. She was immediately and totally healed. She went to the Doc for an already scheduled appointment the next day. He said there was no sign of cancer anywhere in her body and that he was dumfounded as he was never wrong.

As I understand it, the medical verification documentation is quite conclusive. She may even publish it all in her own narrative in due course. I'm not inclined to give more info for my privacy.

I think I learned that this last Tuesday evening.

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Last Wednesday evening at church, Pastor related the following narrative.

She had been on a mission trip to Guatemala. In one of their gatherings in one of the poorest churches--a ramshackle tin building affair . . . a local church member began to give a message in tongues. This person had never learned English at all.

The woman spoke quite clear English and told of how God was going to give them a newer larger building much better for their church.

The woman had no idea what she had said. When Pastor's team told her what she'd said, she broke down almost in convulsions for joy and in humility over the Lord using her so to bring such a longed for message to her congregation. As I understand it, that did then transpire exactly as she'd declared in a language she did not know.

On the same mission trip, they went to a very wealthy church led by a Pastor who lived in a wealthy home with marble walls etc. Pastor visited the man's opulent home.

Holy Spirit spoke to Pastor and told her that the man was having an affair with his secretary and that Pastor must confront him and call him to repentance. Pastor has a very powerful prophetic gifting though is not per se a prophet.

Pastor told their local tour guide who was in personal relationship with all the pastors of the churches they visited--including this wealthy one. She replied to Pastor: "You'd better be right!"

Pastor confronted him and he admitted it. He did not repent but justified it with sleezey rationalizing that he was 'supposed to love the sheep.'

I felt when Pastor related the story that the man has since, rather soon after that, died but I haven't verified that even with Pastor. She may not know.

[presently no screen name]

assuring everybody that he is entirely Biblical in his teachings

Where does it say Quix is the spokesperson for Copeland? Go to God, he is God's creation and God KNOWS ALL!

Something, BTW, that you have not yet even addressed.

You have THE WORD like Quix does. And if you think Copeland is a fraud, why are you so concerned what he says. Don't listen/read what he says. Very simple solution to your demands.

[roamer_1]

Again you are reading much more into that verse than what is there. What you claim is not what is stated.

Then break it down for me... tell me what it does say. What I get out of it is that the wicked will look for a sign and find nothing except the sign of Jonah (three days and three nights)

[presently no screen name]

You will be giving thanks VERY WELL, but it won’t strengthen the people who hear you.

AMEN!! Good post!!

[Quix]

Quix, these threads are an open forum. Anyone can respond or make comments. I don’t need your “invitation” nor will I be kept off these threads because of your thin skin.
193 posted on Sunday, March 11, 2012 6:30:01 PM by CynicalBear

If you choose to get bogged down in the quibbling about peripheral issues feel free but please don’t try to drag me into it.
115 posted on Sunday, March 11, 2012 9:06:46 AM by CynicalBear

Soooooooo . . .

Once again . . . please show me where I

DRUG YOU INTO IT?

BTW, thanks for the personal assault--I appreciate the credit to my Heavenly account.

[Pan_Yans Wife]

one WILL speak in tongues, and another will interpret what is said

BOTH of these phrases go together.

If I speak in tongues and other can't interpret what I have said then I'm not speaking in tongues.

The idea of speaking in tongues means LANGUAGE, does it not?

Language means speaking to convey ideas and thoughts. I speak. Another listens. And in doing so, the listener has to understand what I say. Otherwise, there is no communication between the two of us.

God wouldn't have me speaking in gibberish as a freak-show. That wouldn't bring glory to Him. So this is speaking to another to convey a message.

I don't see the controversy, here. I believe it did happen as described in the NT. What am I supposed to be all worried about, Quix?

[Quix]

Bravo! That is a fairly brave position to take, and I largely agree with it. However, the matter-of-fact way that it is discussed in the scriptures leads me to believe that the initial audience the scriptures were written for knew exactly what the term implied - It bothers me that something so perfectly understood then has been nearly erased in our thought - Again, I come from the position that the Gifts were evident then (thus delivered), and therefore should be evident now. What bugs me about that is the absence of powerful gifts that were matter-of-fact and powerful in that day.

On a previous thread there was a question: "Why aren't these charismatics hanging around in hospitals in droves healing people?" The broader concept which went unnoticed in that debate is "Why aren't CHRISTIANS hanging around in hospitals in droves healing people?"

Something important has been lost - Can you see that?

. PRAISE GOD. It is soooo refreshing to read on such threads someone who is Biblically grounded; spiritually discerning; perceptive, observant, rational; with both feet on the ground.

I need to sit down and recover from the shock. Oh, I am sitting down. LOL.

[Quix]

Bearing false witness?

Please show me where I ever said

anyone

was

‘entirely Biblical.’

Mangling my words is no more honorable than mangling Scripture.

[narses]

[Quix]

Thanks for your kind words.

INDEED. Right you are.

Shocking, personally.

And NOT A SHRED of a hint that any of them consider to the least degree that they could be in the least degree even slightly wrong.

There’s a ton of stuff demonstrated by all manner of Christians that I just put on a shelf and wait for God to clarify, sort out, confirm, disconfirm, whatever. I feel no need to get on my high horse about it in some sort of haughty judgmental prissiness.

As King David said . . . don’t stop them, perhaps God has sent them . . . LOL.

However, when it comes to God operating in this era, I will be fiercely in favor of HIS DOINGS AND HIS WORD ON THE MATTER.

Like no other era before—these END TIMES WILL REQUIRE IT—likely for mere survival—much more so OVERCOMING AND DOING THE ENEMY IN.

[Quix]

Actually,

Now that I ponder it . . .

I don't recall the kinds of off base teachings and behaviors the naysayers rant so seemingly compulsively about . . . in any of the Charismatic, Pentecostal churches I've been a part of . . . for . . . oh, the last

40 years.

Evidently some folks have been hanging around in all the 'wrong' places.

[presently no screen name]

As far as the hospitals go, it only sounds good. I heard of someone going into a hospital or nursing home, I forget. And the guy was in the wheelchair and ending up chasing the guy who came in peace out of the place. The wheelchair bound guy said he was suffering for The Lord and who is he to rob him of that. Amazing.

Lake closed two hospitals because he believed for so many healings outside the hospitals weren’t needed.

[Quix]

Absolutely indeed.

Something else I've not seen at all . . .

Lots of folks mature and get wiser with age. They recant a lot of their foolish statements earlier.

I'd guesstimate that

NOT A SINGLE NAYSAYER ON THIS THREAD HAS CHECKED KENNETH COPELAND'S MINISTRY OR HIM PERSONALLY OR HIS STAFF TO SEE

IF

He's recanted any of his foolish statements, or not.

And, I am also fairly certain . . . that every last naysayer on this thread would be terminally embarrassed

IF

ALL THEIR FOOLISH STATEMENTS over their lifetimes were publically posted, published and spewed 24/7 from the media.

[Quix]

Thanks for your understanding and kind reply.

[Quix]

If I speak in tongues and other can't interpret what I have said then I'm not speaking in tongues.

That may be your personal interpretation and inference.

However, SCRIPTURE DOES NOT SAY THAT!

At most Scripture would say that the person was out of order to speak in tongues PUBLICALLY without and interpreter. !DOH!

And in terms of praying in tongues alone to God, your assertion has no application whatsoever.

[Quix]

I see the

Vatican Ashteroth-Mary-Goddess cult nastiness was a bit late to the party on this thread.

[narses]

My soul magnifies the Lord,
And my spirit rejoices in God my Savior.
For He has regarded the low estate of His handmaiden,
For behold, henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
For He who is mighty has done great things for me, and holy is His name. And His mercy is on those who fear Him from generation to generation.
He has shown strength with His arm:
He has scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.
He has put down the mighty from their thrones,
and exalted those of low degree.
He has filled the hungry with good things;
and the rich He has sent empty away.
He has helped His servant Israel, in remembrance of His mercy;
As He spoke to our fathers, to Abraham and to His posterity forever.

Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit.
As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen

Magníficat ánima mea Dóminum,
et exsultávit spíritus meus
in Deo salvatóre meo,
quia respéxit humilitátem
ancíllæ suæ.

Ecce enim ex hoc beátam
me dicent omnes generatiónes,
quia fecit mihi magna,
qui potens est,
et sanctum nomen eius,
et misericórdia eius in progénies
et progénies timéntibus eum.
Fecit poténtiam in bráchio suo,
dispérsit supérbos mente cordis sui;
depósuit poténtes de sede
et exaltávit húmiles.
Esuriéntes implévit bonis
et dívites dimísit inánes.
Suscépit Ísrael púerum suum,
recordátus misericórdiæ,
sicut locútus est ad patres nostros,
Ábraham et sémini eius in sæcula.

Glória Patri et Fílio
et Spirítui Sancto.
Sicut erat in princípio,
et nunc et semper,
et in sæcula sæculórum.

Amen.

She became the Mother of God, in which work so many and such great good things are bestowed on her as pass man’s understanding. For on this there follows all honor, all blessedness, and her unique place in the whole of mankind, among which she has no equal, namely, that she had a child by the Father in heaven, and such a Child . . . Hence men have crowded all her glory into a single word, calling her the Mother of God . . . None can say of her nor announce to her greater things, even though he had as many tongues as the earth possesses flowers and blades of grass: the sky, stars; and the sea, grains of sand. It needs to be pondered in the heart what it means to be the Mother of God.

(Commentary on the Magnificat, 1521; in Luther’s Works, Pelikan et al, vol. 21, 326)

[Quix]

Exodus 20:4-6

King James Version (KJV)

4Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

6And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

19.Micah 1:7
And all the graven images thereof shall be beaten to pieces, and all the hires thereof shall be burned with the fire, and all the idols thereof will I lay desolate: for she gathered it of the hire of an harlot, and they shall return to the hire of an harlot.

20.Micah 5:13
Thy graven images also will I cut off, and thy standing images out of the midst of thee; and thou shalt no more worship the work of thine hands.

[Quix]

Interesting.

Folks would learn a lot FROM THE LORD by studying Lake’s ministry.

And Curry Blake is carrying on such a ministry in grand form.

Curry Blake:
http://spiritlessons.com/Documents/Healing/JGL/JGL_Ministries.htm

[Pan_Yans Wife]

Quix,

If Copeland did make foolish statements in the past, he turned people away from him. And when he did that, people did not come back. That’s the nature of the television ministry where the words and deeds of the minister are noted and spread far and wide. The ministry welcomes that type of exposure and scrutiny because it is on television. A larger audience invites more criticism. Copeland knows this.

I doubt he sits and worries about his detractors because he counts the numbers of the faithful, instead.

I wouldn’t worry too much about his feelings and if he’s concerned. I’d worry more about the overall message that his congregation is getting from him. It is the message that matters the most. As long as they adhere to the gospel then all is well.

Isn’t that true?

[Quix]

BTW, I’m slightly curious

How many Hail Mary’s does it take

Or how many times around the

STATIONS OF THE WHITE HANKY

For Vatican folks

to get a

SPECIAL FR dispensation

from the rule to avoid carrying nastiness from thread to thread?