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To: Mr Rogers; smvoice
That explains a fair amount. And, it makes sense that you would espouse "free will", because the two go together. The works of man and the need for there to be "free will." Evidently, you did not read the passages quoted by smvoice from Matt. where Jesus called you a "dog" and said He did not come for you (or me), but only to the house of Israel.

I gather that you, "take up your cross daily", never get angry, never look upon a woman, never even wish you had a neighbor's horse, and...well, this is going to take more bandwidth than JRob would like for me to use.

But, yes, even Peter was being taught the Law until he finally said, "Well, then who can be saved?" and Jesus explains, "With man it is IMPOSSIBLE, but with God all things are possible." There is our rescue, my FRiend. What you cannot do for yourself, God invades your space (or shall I say, the Spirit blows where it will) and you are born from above (a second time). Just as you did not decied when you would be born the first time, you cannot decide when to be born the second. But, those who are "appointed to eternal life, believed". Check Acts 13:48.

You have been laid hold of, chosen before the foundation of the world, not because of deeds done in righteousness, but because of His mercy. That is not, my FRiend, cheap grace. It was extremely costly...just not to you.

This is why Paul writes, "So then it does not depend upon the man who runs (acts) or the man who wills (chooses), but upon God who has mercy. And He will have mercy upon whom He will have mercy and harden whom He will." Read on in Rom. to chap. 9.

And, like Paul knew was coming...You will say to me, 'How can He still find fault, for who resists His will?' His answer? Sorry, but the Master Potter has the right to make His pots any way He wishes. Some for glory and honor, some for destruction. He is the definition of just.

"We are predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ. If we refuse and rebel, and reject the image of Christ, then we are not His. If we think we can claim the forgiveness of God, yet refuse to forgive others, we deceive ourselves. The Gospel is to be born again, a new creation in Christ - not to walk the aisle, claim God's mercy, and then despise it in our life."

Your argument that one is "predestined" to be conformed to the image of Christ...as long as we don't rebel, does not comport with the idea of predestination. If you mean, we MAY be able to be conformed as long as we agree to be conformed and cooperate to be conformed and help make ourselves conformed, then you need a word other than "predestined". That word means the end destination is already determined.

I certainly agree that no one born again will despise their rescue OR they are not actually among the elect. But, Paul clearly says, "While we were dead in our trespasses and sin, He made us alive in Him." What part of that required your agreement?

61 posted on 02/14/2012 11:07:16 AM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: Dutchboy88; smvoice; NYer; Forest Keeper; Gamecock; RnMomof7; HarleyD; fish hawk; dangus; Cronos; ..

“But, Paul clearly says, “While we were dead in our trespasses and sin, He made us alive in Him.” What part of that required your agreement?”

As the JB Phillips translation puts it:

“But even though we were dead in our sins God, who is rich in mercy, because of the great love he had for us, gave us life together with Christ—it is, remember, by grace and not by achievement that you are saved—and has lifted us right out of the old life to take our place with him in Christ in the Heavens. Thus he shows for all time the tremendous generosity of the grace and kindness he has expressed towards us in Christ Jesus. It was nothing you could or did achieve—it was God’s gift to you. No one can pride himself upon earning the love of God. The fact is that what we are we owe to the hand of God upon us. We are born afresh in Christ, and born to do those good deeds which God planned for us to do.”

All true. Dead in our sins does not mean dead as in no life, but dead because death is all that awaited us. We were dead as the Prodigal Son was dead (”For this is my son—I thought he was dead, and he’s alive again. I thought I had lost him, and he’s found!’”) Yet the son needed to repent and return: “Then he came to his senses and cried aloud, ‘...I will get up and go back to my father...”.

Indeed, we are called sick or captive by Jesus - the Jesus who you claim had nothing to say to Gentiles - for he said, “‘The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to preach the Gospel to the poor. He has sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed, to preach the acceptable year of the Lord’.” - Luke 4

Poor. Brokenhearted. Captive. Blind. Oppressed. AND dead.

And when we were helpless & hopeless, GOD made a way. GOD rescued US. But God does not do it IAW some celestial lottery , but He rescues those who believe His promise. When the Philippian jailer asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”, Paul did not reply, “Nothing. It will be done to you. Or not. Let us know...”

Instead, “they replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and then you will be saved, you and your household.” Then they told him and all the members of his household the message of God.” - Acts 16

“Evidently, you did not read the passages quoted by smvoice from Matt. where Jesus called you a “dog” and said He did not come for you (or me), but only to the house of Israel.”

Hmmm...you mean like in that passage the Calvinists reject:

“The Son of Man must be lifted above the heads of men—as Moses lifted up that serpent in the desert—so that any man who believes in him may have eternal life. For God loved the world so much that he gave his only Son, so that every one who believes in him shall not be lost, but should have eternal life. You must understand that God has not sent his Son into the world to pass sentence upon it, but to save it—through him. Any man who believes in him is not judged at all. It is the one who will not believe who stands already condemned, because he will not believe in the character of God’s only Son. This is the judgment—that light has entered the world and men have preferred darkness to light because their deeds are evil. Anybody who does wrong hates the light and keeps away from it, for fear his deeds may be exposed. But anybody who is living by the truth will come to the light to make it plain that all he has done has been done through God.” - John 3

There is nothing Christian about teaching that Jesus can be ignored by Gentiles, that his teaching was only applicable to Jews.

“Evidently, you did not read the passages quoted by smvoice from Matt. where Jesus called you a “dog” and said He did not come for you (or me), but only to the house of Israel.”

How about we READ that passage together?

“Jesus left that place and retired into the Tyre and Sidon district. There a Canaanite woman from those parts came to him crying at the top of her voice, “Lord, have pity on me! My daughter is in a terrible state—a devil has got into her!”

Jesus made no answer, and the disciples came up to him and said, “Do send her away—she’s still following us and calling out.”

“I was only sent,” replied Jesus, “to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

Then the woman came and knelt at his feet. “Lord, help me,” she said.

“It is not right, you know,” Jesus replied, “to take the children’s food and throw it to the dogs.”

“Yes, Lord, I know, but even the dogs live on the scraps that fall from their master’s table!”

“You certainly don’t lack faith,” returned Jesus, “it shall be as you wish.” And at that moment her daughter was cured.” - Matt 15

Golly...what happened? I thought Jesus didn’t care about her. I thought he rejected her! But in that passage, Jesus TESTED her FAITH, and concluded,

“You certainly don’t lack faith...it shall be as you wish.” And at that moment her daughter was cured.”

It is bizarre that someone would claim the Gospels only apply to Jews, or that the ‘words in red’ can be skipped over by gentiles.


65 posted on 02/14/2012 11:56:55 AM PST by Mr Rogers ("they found themselves made strangers in their own country")
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