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To: Dutchboy88; smvoice; NYer; Forest Keeper; Gamecock; RnMomof7; HarleyD; fish hawk; dangus; ...
"Please, read the last phrase Jesus adds (one you even appended): “For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your Heavenly Father will also forgive you. BUT, if you do not forgive men their sins, you Father will not forgive your sins. / Curious...is this the Gospel you teach?"

Yes. More to the point, it is the Gospel JESUS taught.

"21 Then Peter approached him with the question, “Master, how many times can my brother wrong me and I must forgive him? Would seven times be enough?”

22-27 “No,” replied Jesus, “not seven times, but seventy times seven! For the kingdom of Heaven is like a king who decided to settle his accounts with his servants. When he had started calling in his accounts, a man was brought to him who owed him millions of pounds. And when it was plain that he had no means of repaying the debt, his master gave orders for him to be sold as a slave, and his wife and children and all his possessions as well, and the money to be paid over. At this the servant fell on his knees before his master, ‘Oh, be patient with me!’ he cried, ‘and I will pay you back every penny!’ Then his master was moved with pity for him, set him free and cancelled his debt.

28-30 “But when this same servant had left his master’s presence, he found one of his fellow-servants who owed him a few shillings. He grabbed him and seized him by the throat, crying, ‘Pay up what you owe me!’ At this his fellow-servant fell down at his feet, and implored him, ‘Oh, be patient with me, and I will pay you back!’ But he refused and went out and had him put in prison until he should repay the debt.

31 When the other fellow-servants saw what had happened, they were horrified and told their master the whole incident.

32-35 Then his master called him in. “‘You wicked servant!’ he said. ‘Didn’t I cancel all that debt when you begged me to do so? Oughtn’t you to have taken pity on your fellow-servant as I, your master, took pity on you? And his master in anger handed him over to the jailers till he should repay the whole debt. This is how my Heavenly Father will treat you unless you each forgive your brother from your heart.” - Matt 18

Notice this parable is given to Peter, and immediately follows Jesus teaching about church discipline ("But if he will not listen to you, take one or two others with you so that everything that is said may have the support of two or three witnesses. And if he still won’t pay any attention, tell the matter to the church. And if he won’t even listen to the church then he must be to you just like a pagan—or a tax-collector!") .

Please do not confuse the mercy of God with cheap & easy grace. We are PREDESTINED, but for what?

"For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified." - Romans 8

We are predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ. If we refuse and rebel, and reject the image of Christ, then we are not His. If we think we can claim the forgiveness of God, yet refuse to forgive others, we deceive ourselves. The Gospel is to be born again, a new creation in Christ - not to walk the aisle, claim God's mercy, and then despise it in our life.

As the writer of Hebrews says - or is this another passage you believe doesn't apply to Gentile believers:

"Now if we sin deliberately after we have known and accepted the truth, there can be no further sacrifice for sin for us but only a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fire of God’s indignation, which will one day consume all that sets itself against him. The man who showed contempt for Moses’ Law died without hope of appeal on the evidence of two or three of his fellows. How much more dreadful a punishment will he be thought to deserve who has poured scorn on the Son of God, treated like dirt the blood of the agreement which had once made him holy, and insulted the very Spirit of grace? For we know the one who said: ‘Vengeance is mine: I will repay’. And again: ‘The Lord will judge his people’. Truly it is a terrible thing for a man who has done this to fall into the hands of the living God!" - Hebrews 10

That obviously does not apply to one sin, just as the teaching of Jesus about forgiveness doesn't apply to one case of not forgiving someone. But those who claim the grace of God saves them, but who spurn it in their lives, living in bitterness, hatred & refusing to forgive, have lied to themselves.

The New Testament doesn't begin at Acts 10 for gentiles like myself.

Indeed, Paul wrote to the Corinthians:

" 1-7 For I should like to remind you, my brothers, that our ancestors all had the experience of being guided by the cloud in the desert and of crossing the sea dry-shod. They were all, so to speak, “baptised” into Moses by these experiences. They all shared the same spiritual food and drank the same spiritual drink (for they drank from the spiritual rock which followed them, and that rock was Christ). Yet in spite of all these wonderful experiences many of them failed to please God, and left their bones in the desert. Now in these events our ancestors stand as examples to us, warning us not to crave after evil things as they did. Nor are you to worship false gods as they did. The scripture says—‘The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.’

8-10 Neither should we give way to sexual immorality as did some of them, for we read that twenty-three thousand fell in a single day! Nor should we dare to exploit the goodness of God as some of them did, and fell victims to poisonous snakes. Nor yet must you curse the lot that God has appointed to you as they did, and met their end at the hand of the angel of death.

11 Now these things which happened to our ancestors are illustrations of the way in which God works, and they were written down to be a warning to us who are the heirs of the ages which have gone before us.

12 So let the man who feels sure of his standing today be careful that he does not fall tomorrow." - 1 Cor 10

Or as the Apostle John wrote:

"1-2 I write these things to you (may I call you “my children”—for that’s how I think of you), to help you to avoid sin. But if a man should sin, remember that our advocate before the Father is Jesus Christ the righteous, the one who made personal atonement for our sins (and for those of the rest of the world as well).

3-6 It is only when we obey God’s laws that we can be quite sure that we really know him. The man who claims to know God but does not obey his laws is not only a liar but lives in self-delusion. In practice, the more a man learns to obey God’s laws the more truly and fully does he express his love for him. Obedience is the test of whether we really live “in God” or not. The life of a man who professes to be living in God must bear the stamp of Christ." - 1 John 2

59 posted on 02/14/2012 10:32:25 AM PST by Mr Rogers ("they found themselves made strangers in their own country")
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To: All

“In him verily is the love of God perfected. He professes to have the love of God in his heart, and that love receives its completion or filling up by obedience to the will of God. That obedience is the proper carrying out, or the exponent of the love which exists in the heart. Love to the Saviour would be defective without that, for it is never complete without obedience. If this be the true interpretation, then the passage does not make any affirmation about sinless perfection, but it only affirms that if true love exists in the heart, it will be carried out in the life; or that love and obedience are parts of the same thing; that one will be manifested by the other; and that where obedience exists, it is the completion or perfecting of love. Besides, the apostle does not say that either the love or the obedience would be in themselves absolutely perfect; but he says that one cannot fully develope itself without the other.” - Albert Barnes

http://www.studylight.org/com/bnn/view.cgi?book=1jo&chapter=002


60 posted on 02/14/2012 10:39:15 AM PST by Mr Rogers ("they found themselves made strangers in their own country")
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To: Mr Rogers; smvoice
That explains a fair amount. And, it makes sense that you would espouse "free will", because the two go together. The works of man and the need for there to be "free will." Evidently, you did not read the passages quoted by smvoice from Matt. where Jesus called you a "dog" and said He did not come for you (or me), but only to the house of Israel.

I gather that you, "take up your cross daily", never get angry, never look upon a woman, never even wish you had a neighbor's horse, and...well, this is going to take more bandwidth than JRob would like for me to use.

But, yes, even Peter was being taught the Law until he finally said, "Well, then who can be saved?" and Jesus explains, "With man it is IMPOSSIBLE, but with God all things are possible." There is our rescue, my FRiend. What you cannot do for yourself, God invades your space (or shall I say, the Spirit blows where it will) and you are born from above (a second time). Just as you did not decied when you would be born the first time, you cannot decide when to be born the second. But, those who are "appointed to eternal life, believed". Check Acts 13:48.

You have been laid hold of, chosen before the foundation of the world, not because of deeds done in righteousness, but because of His mercy. That is not, my FRiend, cheap grace. It was extremely costly...just not to you.

This is why Paul writes, "So then it does not depend upon the man who runs (acts) or the man who wills (chooses), but upon God who has mercy. And He will have mercy upon whom He will have mercy and harden whom He will." Read on in Rom. to chap. 9.

And, like Paul knew was coming...You will say to me, 'How can He still find fault, for who resists His will?' His answer? Sorry, but the Master Potter has the right to make His pots any way He wishes. Some for glory and honor, some for destruction. He is the definition of just.

"We are predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ. If we refuse and rebel, and reject the image of Christ, then we are not His. If we think we can claim the forgiveness of God, yet refuse to forgive others, we deceive ourselves. The Gospel is to be born again, a new creation in Christ - not to walk the aisle, claim God's mercy, and then despise it in our life."

Your argument that one is "predestined" to be conformed to the image of Christ...as long as we don't rebel, does not comport with the idea of predestination. If you mean, we MAY be able to be conformed as long as we agree to be conformed and cooperate to be conformed and help make ourselves conformed, then you need a word other than "predestined". That word means the end destination is already determined.

I certainly agree that no one born again will despise their rescue OR they are not actually among the elect. But, Paul clearly says, "While we were dead in our trespasses and sin, He made us alive in Him." What part of that required your agreement?

61 posted on 02/14/2012 11:07:16 AM PST by Dutchboy88
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