Posted on 02/11/2012 12:04:19 PM PST by NYer
I gather that you, "take up your cross daily", never get angry, never look upon a woman, never even wish you had a neighbor's horse, and...well, this is going to take more bandwidth than JRob would like for me to use.
But, yes, even Peter was being taught the Law until he finally said, "Well, then who can be saved?" and Jesus explains, "With man it is IMPOSSIBLE, but with God all things are possible." There is our rescue, my FRiend. What you cannot do for yourself, God invades your space (or shall I say, the Spirit blows where it will) and you are born from above (a second time). Just as you did not decied when you would be born the first time, you cannot decide when to be born the second. But, those who are "appointed to eternal life, believed". Check Acts 13:48.
You have been laid hold of, chosen before the foundation of the world, not because of deeds done in righteousness, but because of His mercy. That is not, my FRiend, cheap grace. It was extremely costly...just not to you.
This is why Paul writes, "So then it does not depend upon the man who runs (acts) or the man who wills (chooses), but upon God who has mercy. And He will have mercy upon whom He will have mercy and harden whom He will." Read on in Rom. to chap. 9.
And, like Paul knew was coming...You will say to me, 'How can He still find fault, for who resists His will?' His answer? Sorry, but the Master Potter has the right to make His pots any way He wishes. Some for glory and honor, some for destruction. He is the definition of just.
"We are predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ. If we refuse and rebel, and reject the image of Christ, then we are not His. If we think we can claim the forgiveness of God, yet refuse to forgive others, we deceive ourselves. The Gospel is to be born again, a new creation in Christ - not to walk the aisle, claim God's mercy, and then despise it in our life."
Your argument that one is "predestined" to be conformed to the image of Christ...as long as we don't rebel, does not comport with the idea of predestination. If you mean, we MAY be able to be conformed as long as we agree to be conformed and cooperate to be conformed and help make ourselves conformed, then you need a word other than "predestined". That word means the end destination is already determined.
I certainly agree that no one born again will despise their rescue OR they are not actually among the elect. But, Paul clearly says, "While we were dead in our trespasses and sin, He made us alive in Him." What part of that required your agreement?
Ouch. In many respects, however, you are correct. I am what you accuse me of. Like Paul, however, I hope to be clothed in the righteousness of Jesus Christ, not my own (non existent) righteousness. I hope you are of the same mind. Phil. 3:9
You may feel free to have whatever feelings you have about the Church, but please understand this: If the Catholic Church loses this battle do you think that obozo will allow other religious groups that he disagrees with to flourish?
Do you think your particular denomination will be able to stand up to him alone?
I don’t have a “particular denomination”. By virtue of the fact that I belong to Christ, I am in His gathering, adopted by Him and safe inside of His care. BHO is also being managed by Him, the way Caesar was in Rome. We are to have our eyes open and live wisely, but not in fear of any man. BHO cannot do anything to believers that God does not ordain, so you may wish to scream and yell, or protest or whatever. We view it as, “Can BHO stand up to God? Answer, of course not.”
And, I am not ignoring any facts.
“But, Paul clearly says, “While we were dead in our trespasses and sin, He made us alive in Him.” What part of that required your agreement?”
As the JB Phillips translation puts it:
“But even though we were dead in our sins God, who is rich in mercy, because of the great love he had for us, gave us life together with Christ—it is, remember, by grace and not by achievement that you are saved—and has lifted us right out of the old life to take our place with him in Christ in the Heavens. Thus he shows for all time the tremendous generosity of the grace and kindness he has expressed towards us in Christ Jesus. It was nothing you could or did achieve—it was God’s gift to you. No one can pride himself upon earning the love of God. The fact is that what we are we owe to the hand of God upon us. We are born afresh in Christ, and born to do those good deeds which God planned for us to do.”
All true. Dead in our sins does not mean dead as in no life, but dead because death is all that awaited us. We were dead as the Prodigal Son was dead (”For this is my son—I thought he was dead, and he’s alive again. I thought I had lost him, and he’s found!’”) Yet the son needed to repent and return: “Then he came to his senses and cried aloud, ‘...I will get up and go back to my father...”.
Indeed, we are called sick or captive by Jesus - the Jesus who you claim had nothing to say to Gentiles - for he said, “‘The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to preach the Gospel to the poor. He has sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed, to preach the acceptable year of the Lord’.” - Luke 4
Poor. Brokenhearted. Captive. Blind. Oppressed. AND dead.
And when we were helpless & hopeless, GOD made a way. GOD rescued US. But God does not do it IAW some celestial lottery , but He rescues those who believe His promise. When the Philippian jailer asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”, Paul did not reply, “Nothing. It will be done to you. Or not. Let us know...”
Instead, “they replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and then you will be saved, you and your household.” Then they told him and all the members of his household the message of God.” - Acts 16
“Evidently, you did not read the passages quoted by smvoice from Matt. where Jesus called you a “dog” and said He did not come for you (or me), but only to the house of Israel.”
Hmmm...you mean like in that passage the Calvinists reject:
“The Son of Man must be lifted above the heads of men—as Moses lifted up that serpent in the desert—so that any man who believes in him may have eternal life. For God loved the world so much that he gave his only Son, so that every one who believes in him shall not be lost, but should have eternal life. You must understand that God has not sent his Son into the world to pass sentence upon it, but to save it—through him. Any man who believes in him is not judged at all. It is the one who will not believe who stands already condemned, because he will not believe in the character of God’s only Son. This is the judgment—that light has entered the world and men have preferred darkness to light because their deeds are evil. Anybody who does wrong hates the light and keeps away from it, for fear his deeds may be exposed. But anybody who is living by the truth will come to the light to make it plain that all he has done has been done through God.” - John 3
There is nothing Christian about teaching that Jesus can be ignored by Gentiles, that his teaching was only applicable to Jews.
“Evidently, you did not read the passages quoted by smvoice from Matt. where Jesus called you a “dog” and said He did not come for you (or me), but only to the house of Israel.”
How about we READ that passage together?
“Jesus left that place and retired into the Tyre and Sidon district. There a Canaanite woman from those parts came to him crying at the top of her voice, “Lord, have pity on me! My daughter is in a terrible state—a devil has got into her!”
Jesus made no answer, and the disciples came up to him and said, “Do send her away—she’s still following us and calling out.”
“I was only sent,” replied Jesus, “to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
Then the woman came and knelt at his feet. “Lord, help me,” she said.
“It is not right, you know,” Jesus replied, “to take the children’s food and throw it to the dogs.”
“Yes, Lord, I know, but even the dogs live on the scraps that fall from their master’s table!”
“You certainly don’t lack faith,” returned Jesus, “it shall be as you wish.” And at that moment her daughter was cured.” - Matt 15
Golly...what happened? I thought Jesus didn’t care about her. I thought he rejected her! But in that passage, Jesus TESTED her FAITH, and concluded,
“You certainly don’t lack faith...it shall be as you wish.” And at that moment her daughter was cured.”
It is bizarre that someone would claim the Gospels only apply to Jews, or that the ‘words in red’ can be skipped over by gentiles.
I wanted to answer this first, then get on to the rest of your comment.
Who said it? Jesus. Who did He say it to? A Syrophenician woman. A Greek. A Gentile. (see: Mark 7:26 for comparing Scripture with Scripture for complete picture). What did He say? Once again, compare Matthew with Mark 7:27-30 for completeness. "But Jesus said unto her, Let the CHILDREN FIRST BE FILLED: for it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it unto the dogs. And she answered and said unto him, Yes, Lord; yet the dogs under the table eat of the children's crumbs. And he said unto her, FOR THIS SAYING go thy way; the devil is gone out of thy daughter."
Why did He say this? Israel, the CHILDREN must first be filled. Once they are filled, they will become a Nation of priests and a blessing to all nations. In order for a gentile to be blessed, there was a time, and there WILL be a time, in the future, when they will have to go through Israel for their blessing from Christ.
So, why did He heal the gentile girl? Because her mother understood that she, as a gentile, was NOT part of the "children who must first be filled." But she was willing to take the crumbs of their filling that were cast under the table. SHE WAS GOING THROUGH ISRAEL, ACKNOWLEDGING CHRIST AS LORD, TO RECEIVE A BLESSING FROM THEIR MESSIAH. She, as a gentile, was acknowledging that she was not worthy of the children's bread, she was a dog, and she UNDERSTOOD Him when He said "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." (Matt. 15:24).
Her blessing came about because she went through Israel and blessed Israel as the children, and showed her faith that Israel's God was Lord.
I wanted to answer this first, then get on to the rest of your comment.
Who said it? Jesus. Who did He say it to? A Syrophenician woman. A Greek. A Gentile. (see: Mark 7:26 for comparing Scripture with Scripture for complete picture). What did He say? Once again, compare Matthew with Mark 7:27-30 for completeness. "But Jesus said unto her, Let the CHILDREN FIRST BE FILLED: for it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it unto the dogs. And she answered and said unto him, Yes, Lord; yet the dogs under the table eat of the children's crumbs. And he said unto her, FOR THIS SAYING go thy way; the devil is gone out of thy daughter."
Why did He say this? Israel, the CHILDREN must first be filled. Once they are filled, they will become a Nation of priests and a blessing to all nations. In order for a gentile to be blessed, there was a time, and there WILL be a time, in the future, when they will have to go through Israel for their blessing from Christ.
So, why did He heal the gentile girl? Because her mother understood that she, as a gentile, was NOT part of the "children who must first be filled." But she was willing to take the crumbs of their filling that were cast under the table. SHE WAS GOING THROUGH ISRAEL, ACKNOWLEDGING CHRIST AS LORD, TO RECEIVE A BLESSING FROM THEIR MESSIAH. She, as a gentile, was acknowledging that she was not worthy of the children's bread, she was a dog, and she UNDERSTOOD Him when He said "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." (Matt. 15:24).
Her blessing came about because she went through Israel and blessed Israel as the children, and showed her faith that Israel's God was Lord.
I am unaware of a "calvinist" who rejects any Scripture. Perhaps a difference here is that you read into John 3:16ff an "offer" and I read it as a fact. I would not, however, necessarily call myself a "calvinist". Please tell us what John meant later when he wrote in Chap. 6, "no man comes to me unless the Father has enabled him." vs. 65. He even invited his disciples to leave based on how shocking this situation was. But, Peter is compelled to stay. So, the fact that whoever believes on Him DOES have eternal life, doesn't mean He is saying "anyone who wants to believe on his own" may believe. That part you have added.
Of course, the Scriptures are full of commandments, orders, requests, calls to obey and believe. The question is...can you do this without God causing it? Acts 16:14. And, please recognize, there is an enormous difference between saying that the theology discussed in a section of Scripture (for example the theology of the sacrifices in Leviticus) is a useful, integral part of the story, but not intended for us to actually perform...unless it was directed to us. Certainly, you don't do the sacrifices, do you? How did you decide that they were no longer in effect? And, no the words in red (added by a printer) are no more important than the words in black. If I am not mistaken, the entire Bible is the Word of God.
Please let me add, I never said that Jesus Christ can be ignored by the non-Jew. That is no part of biblical theology. The point is what is the teaching he is giving to His Jewish children about obedience is Law this is not the Gospel. As He says towards the end of His three years, “This is the work of my Father, that you believe in Me.” Not, forgive or you won’t be forgiven, etc. That is the Law and the Prophets. Read the so-called Golden Rule at the end of the Sermon on the Mount, He says, this is the Law and the Prophets. Grace is yet to be poured out...
“The point is what is the teaching he is giving to His Jewish children about obedience is Law this is not the Gospel.”
The Apostle John didn’t get the message:
“1-2 I write these things to you (may I call you “my children”—for that’s how I think of you), to help you to avoid sin. But if a man should sin, remember that our advocate before the Father is Jesus Christ the righteous, the one who made personal atonement for our sins (and for those of the rest of the world as well).
3-6 It is only when we obey God’s laws that we can be quite sure that we really know him. The man who claims to know God but does not obey his laws is not only a liar but lives in self-delusion. In practice, the more a man learns to obey God’s laws the more truly and fully does he express his love for him. Obedience is the test of whether we really live “in God” or not. The life of a man who professes to be living in God must bear the stamp of Christ.” - 1 John 2
There is no separation between belief and obedience. If you don’t obey - not perfectly, but there is an eternity of difference between sinning sometimes and sinning cheerfully - then you do not believe.
We do not work to earn salvation, but we are saved to do good deeds:
“No one can pride himself upon earning the love of God. The fact is that what we are we owe to the hand of God upon us. We are born afresh in Christ, and born to do those good deeds which God planned for us to do.” - Ephesians 2
“The life of a man who professes to be living in God must bear the stamp of Christ.”
The fact is that what we are we owe to the hand of God upon us.
The fact is that what we are we owe to the hand of God upon us."
You wrote this phrase from Ephesians 2...? This is precisely what I am getting at.
God showed Peter, through a vision, and Peter doubted in hmself what this vision which he had seen should mean (Acts 9:17).
How could Peter say "it is an UNLAWFUL THING for a Jew to KEEP COMPANY or COME UNTO ONE OF ANOTHER NATION", if Peter and the 11 understood they were to preach the gospel to all nations? This is as late as Acts 10 that Peter is saying this and doubting what his vision meant.
If, from the moment Christ gave them the "great commission", they knew they would be preaching the gospel to all nations, Jew and Gentile, then explain to me Acts 10:28 please.
And I will add the question at this point, WHAT gospel were they to preach to all nations?
Acts 9:17 should be Acts 10:17.
“If, from the moment Christ gave them the “great commission”, they knew they would be preaching the gospel to all nations, Jew and Gentile, then explain to me Acts 10:28 please.”
Oh golly. You mean the disciples didn’t fully understand everything right away? THAT hadn’t happened before, had it...
What could they possibly have NOT understood in that command of Christ?
Your responses are anemic, at best.
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