Say what you will...I indicated in my post that the growth rate has slowed and concede that...the larger you get, the more apt that is to happen. In addition, I have also conceded that there are those leaving the church...always have been and that occurs in all denominations. If it is higher now, so be it, let’s see what happens over the next ten years.
But, despite all of that, the church itself continues to grow, trying to say that a slowing in growth rate means it isn’t growing is like liberal speak...”We’ll cut the budget by cutting the rate we continue to spend,” that’s nt a cut at all. And this is not a decrease in growth at all, that happens when there are less members year to year, which has not happened to my knowledge since 1857...though some years have been close.
And Colo, read the Church web site, it makes clear what the “Standard Works” are, right now, right here. They do not include the Journal of Discourses and officially, they never have. That’s just the truth.
There;’s no apologizing involved...doesn;t need to be when you state facts.
Do people gain good information about doctrine from them? Yes, of course. They are volumnous. I have a set myself which I read and use for reference quite often...there are a lot of very good things in there.
But, are there are also some very clear and difinite opinions in there that are not considered doctrine by the Church? Yes, of course, you have shown quite a few.
But the fact renmains, they are not the “Standard Works,” and not considered “scripture” by the Church.
You guys have a good day, I figured that last post might turn over some kind of ant hill and bring a lot of things out of the woodwork. Forgive me.
But do read the evangelic’s words I linked to above in my last post, when he spoke in the Tabernacle, it was actually a very good talk and was, IMHO, the right way to initiate dialog, understanding, and a way to move forward so we can all work together to defend our nation and its foundation...that is, if you’re interested in doing that with fellow citizens from my faith in any way.
Gotta go, have a great weekend.
You refuse to admit the obvious problems with your organization’s view on scripture and your further attempts to muddy the issue won’t work. Your leaders have contradicted one another on numerous occasions on significant matters of church doctrine, including what is considered scripture or standard works.
All you can do is point to the CURRENT position of your organization regarding the standard works, but that does not address the PREVIOUS positions held by the organizations leaders. Your assertions that JoD was never considered scripture have already been completely debunked in this thread.
Face it...your organization is wishy-washy and can’t stand on a reliable, consistent set of scriptures. Your leaders have made many statements that they considered to be “scripture” at the time only to be discarded by others later.....God doesn’t make mistakes, so your leaders weren’t speaking the words of God.
Yep, went to the church website and what do they say -
Words of Our Living Prophets
In addition to these four books of scripture, the inspired words of our living prophets become scripture to us. Their words come to us through conferences, the Liahona or Ensign magazine, and instructions to local priesthood leaders. “We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God” (Articles of Faith 1:9).
"In addition to these four books of scripture . . . . . . " Those documents contain that which are published Jeff - and YOUR church states that they become scripture as well. Thus by the words of YOUR church - scripture is not limited to the std works.
Young said his teachings were scripture. Other prophets have declared the JoD for instance to be equal to scripture. Their words AGREE with what your church teaches in GP Jeff.
But, despite all of that, the church itself continues to grow, trying to say that a slowing in growth rate means it isn’t growing is like
As pointed out in the study in my prior - more people left the church that year than were converted into it - any growth was due to BICs. It ceases to be a mark of the 'true' church mormon missionaries try to make it out to be. If growth is the standard - then the Assemblies of God are more of a "true" church than mormonism. Heck, even JWs pulled in higher numbers than mormons.
But, are there are also some very clear and difinite opinions in there that are not considered doctrine by the Church?
Dang?
How DOES one know the difference??
Is there an OFFICIAL headquarters approved redacted edition so that a Faithful MORMON does NOT becomed confused?