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To: Yardstick
But you’ve overlooked the intent, which is too big a piece of this to be left out. What these Mormons are doing is nothing like peeing on a grave because peeing on a grave can only be done with the intent to insult or provoke.

Not at all. Once pretty much every Jewish organization and thousands of individuals had notified the Mormon Church that it was offensive and they should stop, their intent became one of insult and provocation.

Mark

57 posted on 02/07/2012 5:39:24 PM PST by MarkL (Do I really look like a guy with a plan?)
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To: MarkL
Once pretty much every Jewish organization and thousands of individuals had notified the Mormon Church that it was offensive and they should stop, their intent became one of insult and provocation.

Nonsense. Something doesn't become offensive because a "victim" claims offense.

No one can say "Each child should bring his book" because some feminists claim offense at the masculine pronoun being used in the generic sense.

Are they right, because they felt offense, that offense must be intended by everyone who says "one small step for man?"

What Mormons do is utterly irrelevant to your ancestors or mine. Let them have their delusions. Getting all offended about it doesn't achieve anything except giving you something to feel offended about.

59 posted on 02/07/2012 5:45:04 PM PST by SoothingDave
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To: MarkL

Sometimes one releases urine with only relief in mind. Other times one trims the grass on a grave, in the reverent belief that a kept grave shows respect for the dead. Others would insist that only one of the correct class keep the grave.

When I was in Germany, there was a Jewish cemetery in the small town where I was stationed. It was unkept. Some of the Christian soldiers gathered volunteers, and led groups of fellow soldiers to trim the vegetation, and straighten the stones. We were mostly not Jews. We did the best we could. It was what we could do. Sadly, there were insufficient local members of ‘the tribe’.


66 posted on 02/07/2012 8:28:22 PM PST by donmeaker (Blunderbuss: A short weapon, ... now superceded in civilized countries by more advanced weaponry.)
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To: MarkL
Not at all. Once pretty much every Jewish organization and thousands of individuals had notified the Mormon Church that it was offensive and they should stop, their intent became one of insult and provocation.

So we agree then that the Mormon baptisms aren't like peeing on a grave, since one doesn't need to be notified that peeing on a grave is offensive.

Furthermore, while I agree that Jews are offended by this, that doesn't change the Mormons' intent. Your offendedness doesn't create intent on their part.

Even their being aware that their baptisms are offensive to you doesn't create intent on their part. All it shows is that they are willing to accept your offendedness. It does not show that they seek it. In fact, most likely they would prefer not to offend you. But they have a choice to make between their religious practice and not offending you, and apparently they value the former over the latter.

That's what really bugs you: their willingness to go ahead and do their baptisms despite the fact that it offends you. I'm pretty sure that would bug me too, but it's not the same as being wronged because they intend to offend you.

So, the Mormons are guilty of being offensive in the second degree here, but not in the first as you are charging them with.

67 posted on 02/07/2012 9:15:18 PM PST by Yardstick
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