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To: palmer

Mormons are being killed by their own success. They have lost the spark that inspired people. They need to get back to where they were 75 years ago. Fewer temples, more faith. What I see is that they are morally bankrupt. Even those poor polygamous neo-Mormon cultist at least have faith in what they were doing. They would go to jail for their views—How many LDS today would do that? How many Christians would face death if confronted by evil? Many are dying for Christ each day in Egypt, and the Middle east and even Europe? I heard a sermon once where the priest asked—If you were accused of being a Christian, would there be enough evidence
to convict you?


16 posted on 02/01/2012 5:42:15 AM PST by Forward the Light Brigade (Into the Jaws of H*ll)
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To: Forward the Light Brigade
Even those poor polygamous neo-Mormon cultist at least have faith in what they were doing. They would go to jail for their views—How many LDS today would do that?


 
 
 
OFFICIAL DECLARATION—1

To Whom It May Concern:

Press dispatches having been sent for political purposes, from Salt Lake City, which have been widely published, to the effect that the Utah Commission, in their recent report to the Secretary of the Interior, allege that plural marriages are still being solemnized and that forty or more such marriages have been contracted in Utah since last June or during the past year, also that in public discourses the leaders of the Church have taught, encouraged and urged the continuance of the practice of polygamy

I, therefore, as President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, do hereby, in the most solemn manner, declare that these charges are false. We are not teaching polygamy or plural marriage, nor permitting any person to enter into its practice, and I deny that either forty or any other number of plural marriages have during that period been solemnized in our Temples or in any other place in the Territory.

One case has been reported, in which the parties allege that the marriage was performed in the Endowment House, in Salt Lake City, in the Spring of 1889, but I have not been able to learn who performed the ceremony; whatever was done in this matter was without my knowledge. In consequence of this alleged occurrence the Endowment House was, by my instructions, taken down without delay.

Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriages, which laws have been pronounced constitutional by the court of last resort, I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws, and to use my influence with the members of the Church over which I preside to have them do likewise.

There is nothing in my teachings to the Church or in those of my associates, during the time specified, which can be reasonably construed to inculcate or encourage polygamy; and when any Elder of the Church has used language which appeared to convey any such teaching, he has been promptly reproved. And I now publicly declare that my advice to the Latter-day Saints is to refrain from contracting any marriage forbidden by the law of the land.

WILFORD WOODRUFF
President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

 




President Lorenzo Snow offered the following:

“I move that, recognizing Wilford Woodruff as the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and the only man on the earth at the present time who holds the keys of the sealing ordinances, we consider him fully authorized by virtue of his position to issue the Manifesto which has been read in our hearing, and which is dated September 24th, 1890, and that as a Church in General Conference assembled, we accept his declaration concerning plural marriages as authoritative and binding.”

The vote to sustain the foregoing motion was unanimous.

Salt Lake City, Utah, October 6, 1890.







 

EXCERPTS FROM THREE ADDRESSES BY
PRESIDENT WILFORD WOODRUFF
REGARDING THE MANIFESTO

The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that, the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty. (Sixty-first Semiannual General Conference of the Church, Monday, October 6, 1890, Salt Lake City, Utah. Reported in Deseret Evening News, October 11, 1890, p. 2.)

It matters not who lives or who dies, or who is called to lead this Church, they have got to lead it by the inspiration of Almighty God. If they do not do it that way, they cannot do it at all. . . .

I have had some revelations of late, and very important ones to me, and I will tell you what the Lord has said to me. Let me bring your minds to what is termed the manifesto. . . .

The Lord has told me to ask the Latter-day Saints a question, and He also told me that if they would listen to what I said to them and answer the question put to them, by the Spirit and power of God, they would all answer alike, and they would all believe alike with regard to this matter.

The question is this: Which is the wisest course for the Latter-day Saints to pursue—to continue to attempt to practice plural marriage, with the laws of the nation against it and the opposition of sixty millions of people, and at the cost of the confiscation and loss of all the Temples, and the stopping of all the ordinances therein, both for the living and the dead, and the imprisonment of the First Presidency and Twelve and the heads of families in the Church, and the confiscation of personal property of the people (all of which of themselves would stop the practice); or, after doing and suffering what we have through our adherence to this principle to cease the practice and submit to the law, and through doing so leave the Prophets, Apostles and fathers at home, so that they can instruct the people and attend to the duties of the Church, and also leave the Temples in the hands of the Saints, so that they can attend to the ordinances of the Gospel, both for the living and the dead?

The Lord showed me by vision and revelation exactly what would take place
if we did not stop this practice. If we had not stopped it, you would have had no use for . . . any of the men in this temple at Logan; for all ordinances would be stopped throughout the land of Zion. Confusion would reign throughout Israel, and many men would be made prisoners. This trouble would have come upon the whole Church, and we should have been compelled to stop the practice. Now, the question is, whether it should be stopped in this manner, or in the way the Lord has manifested to us, and leave our Prophets and Apostles and fathers free men, and the temples in the hands of the people, so that the dead may be redeemed. A large number has already been delivered from the prison house in the spirit world by this people, and shall the work go on or stop? This is the question I lay before the Latter-day Saints. You have to judge for yourselves. I want you to answer it for yourselves. I shall not answer it; but I say to you that that is exactly the condition we as a people would have been in had we not taken the course we have.

. . . I saw exactly what would come to pass if there was not something done. I have had this spirit upon me for a long time. But I want to say this: I should have let all the temples go out of our hands; I should have gone to prison myself, and let every other man go there, had not the God of heaven commanded me to do what I did do; and when the hour came that I was commanded to do that, it was all clear to me. I went before the Lord, and I wrote what the Lord told me to write. . . .

I leave this with you, for you to contemplate and consider. The Lord is at work with us.
(Cache Stake Conference, Logan, Utah, Sunday, November 1, 1891. Reported in Deseret Weekly, November 14, 1891.)
 
 
 

Now I will tell you what was manifested to me and what the Son of God performed in this thing. . . . All these things would have come to pass, as God Almighty lives, had not that Manifesto been given. Therefore, the Son of God felt disposed to have that thing presented to the Church and to the world for purposes in his own mind. The Lord had decreed the establishment of Zion. He had decreed the finishing of this temple. He had decreed that the salvation of the living and the dead should be given in these valleys of the mountains. And Almighty God decreed that the Devil should not thwart it. If you can understand that, that is a key to it.
 
(From a discourse at the sixth session of the dedication of the Salt Lake Temple, April 1893. Typescript of Dedicatory Services, Archives, Church Historical Department, Salt Lake City, Utah.)
 

 
 
 
 
What kind of  'Leadership' is THIS???
 
compared to...
 
 
 
 
Hebrews 11:35-40
 35.  Others were tortured and refused to be released, so that they might gain a better resurrection.
 36.  Some faced jeers and flogging, while still others were chained and put in prison.
 37.  They were stoned ; they were sawed in two; they were put to death by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated--
 38.  the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, and in caves and holes in the ground. 
 
 
or compared to...
 

Acts 4:19.  But Peter and John replied, "Judge for yourselves whether it is right in God's sight to obey you rather than God.
 


 
So much for an 'Everlasting Covenant' that thundered out of Heaven!!!
 
Well; it DID last about 47 years!
 



 
Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriage...
I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws..."

~ Wilford Woodruff, 4th LDS President

 


23 posted on 02/01/2012 5:54:05 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Forward the Light Brigade
If you were accused of being a Christian MORMON, would there be enough evidence to convict you?
24 posted on 02/01/2012 5:54:47 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Forward the Light Brigade

The big dip on your conversion chart started when the information age did.


25 posted on 02/01/2012 6:01:00 AM PST by AnTiw1
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To: Forward the Light Brigade
Many (Christians) are dying for Christ each day in Egypt, and the Middle east and even Europe

yet mormons whine incessantly about being persecuted when their proslytizing is met with facts!

HAVE YOU NOTICED THIS ABOUT MORMONS?
If you were to desire to enter the exclusive LDS-Mormon club, you would have to be agree to the church doctrine including this:
First Presidency Doctrinal Statements
It is not only his discourses that form the basis of Joseph F. Smith's doctrinal legacy. During his presidency, several important documents signed by the First Presidency and/or the Twelve were issued that still serve as a touch stone of Latter-day Saint belief. One such document, The Origin of Man: By the First Presidency, was issued in 1909 during a time when evolution was gaining attention in the academic world.

They wrote:

"In presenting the statement that follows we are not conscious of putting forth anything essentially new; neither is it our desire so to do. Truth is what we wish to present, and truth--eternal truth--is fundamentally old. A restatement of the original attitude of the Church relative to this matter is all that will be attempted here. To tell the truth as God has revealed it, and commend it to the acceptance of those who need to conform their opinions thereto, is the sole purpose of this presentation. 'God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.' In these plain and pointed words the inspired author of the book of Genesis made known to the world the truth concerning the origin of the human family."

They added:

"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, basing its belief on divine revelation, ancient and modern, proclaims man to be the direct and lineal offspring of Deity. God Himself is an exalted man, perfected, enthroned, and supreme. By His almighty power He organized the earth, and all that it contains, from spirit and element, which exist co-eternally with Himself. He formed every plant that grows, and every animal that breathes, each after its own kind, spiritually and temporally--'that which is spiritual being in the likeness of that which is temporal, and that which is temporal in the likeness of that which is spiritual.' He made the tadpole and the ape, the lion and the elephant but He did not make them in His own image, nor endow them with Godlike reason and intelligence. Nevertheless, the whole animal creation will be perfected and perpetuated in the Hereafter, each class in its 'distinct order or sphere,' and will enjoy 'eternal felicity.' . . . Man is the child of God, formed in the divine image and endowed with divine attributes, and even as the infant son of an earthly father and mother is capable in due time of becoming a man, so the undeveloped offspring of celestial parentage is capable, by experience through ages and aeons, of evolving into a God."

http://www.meridianmagazine.com/biography/000128jfsdoctrinelegacy.html

AND THIS: The non-creedal creed of the LDS church

The Articles of Faith
of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
  1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
  2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
  3. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
  4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
  5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
  6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
  7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
  8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
  9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
  10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
  11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
  12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
  13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

Joseph Smith

http://lds.org/scriptures/pgp/a-of-f/1.1-13?lang=eng#1

You would be required to: Become baptized, because the mormon church does not recognize Christian baptism as do many Christian denominations; then become confirmed a member ot the mormon church; then become worthy to be "ordained" into the two "priesthoods"; (IF you are male.)
May 15, 1829, while Joseph translated passages of the Book of Mormon about the necessity of baptism, he and Oliver Cowdery had asked the Lord who had to baptize in His name. "The voice of the Redeemer spake peace to us," Oliver later wrote, and a heavenly messenger, John the Baptist, "came down clothed with glory." He conferred upon the two men the , which holds the "of the gospel of repentance, and of for the remission of sins."

John the Baptist directed the two men to baptize each other, and they soon also baptized others converted to the restored gospel. Through priesthood ordination they authorized others to perform baptism by immersion. From that small beginning, many millions of people worldwide have been baptized members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

Weeks later, Peter, James, and John, who possess "the keys of the kingdom, and of the dispensation of the fulness of times," appeared to Joseph and Oliver and conferred upon them the . Now the fulness of the gospel could be restored, the Church of Jesus Christ could be organized to "roll forth," and all the necessary for the salvation of God's children could be performed—including bestowing the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Because were restored to Joseph Smith, all of God's children can receive the ordinances of salvation such as baptism administered by those called of God to act and speak in His name. D&C 13:1.2. D&C 128:20.3. D&C 65:2.

priesthood keys

Keys are the rights of presidency, or the power given to man by God to direct, control, and govern God's priesthood on earth. Priesthood holders called to positions of presidency receive keys from those in authority over them. Priesthood holders use the priesthood only within the limits outlined by those who hold the keys. The President of the Church holds all priesthood keys (see D&C 107:65–67, 91–92; 132:7; The Guide to the Scriptures, "Keys of the Priesthood," 141). Note: Women are not eligible to become "Priesthood Holders".

Then, if you become "worthy" according to mormon requirements, which include among other things, obeying the Word of Wisdom;

Doctrine and Covenants Section 89

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Kirtland, Ohio, 27 February 1833 (see History of the Church, 1:327–29). As a consequence of the early brethren using tobacco in their meetings, the Prophet was led to ponder upon the matter; consequently, he inquired of the Lord concerning it. This revelation, known as the Word of Wisdom, was the result. The first three verses were originally written as an inspired introduction and description by the Prophet.

1–9, The use of wine, strong drinks, tobacco, and hot drinks is proscribed; 10–17, Herbs, fruits, flesh, and grain are ordained for the use of man and of animals; 18–21, Obedience to gospel law, including the Word of Wisdom, brings temporal and spiritual blessings.

You may then appear before your "spiritual leader" or Ward Bishop, to answer these questions:

Temple Recommend Questions:

1 Do you have faith in and a testimony of God the Eternal Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost?

2 Do you have a testimony of the Atonement of Christ and of His role as Savior and Redeemer?

3 Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days?

4 Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?

5 Do you live the law of chastity?

6 Is there anything in your conduct relating to members of your family that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church?

7 Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

8 Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?

9 Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?

10 Are you a full-tithe payer?

11 Do your keep the Word of Wisdom?

12 Do you have financial or other oblgations to a former spouse or children? If yes, are you current in meeting those obligations?

13 If you have previously received your temple endowment:

Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple?

Do you wear the garment both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple?

14 Have there been any sins or misdeeds in your life that should have been resolved with priesthood authorities but have not been?

15 Do you consider yourself worthy to enter the Lord's house and participate in temple ordinances?
If you pass the Recommend test, you will be issued a piece of paper with a bar code on it that will allow you to enter the temple, No one may enter except those with "recommends" You will then take part in arcane rituals and are described as "Covenants"...covenants that are said to bind YOU and also to bind GOD. In this "temple session", you will be required to take this oath:

You and each of you covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses at this altar, that you do accept the Law of Consecration as contained in the Doctrine and Covenants, in that you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the Kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion .

NOTE: This vow has been taken by Mitt Romney, Jon Huntsman, Harry Reid, Orrin Hatch and ALL others who have a position in the US Federal Government who are "worthy" members of the mormon church including FBI, CIA, Secret Service, etc. and by "worthy" members of the mormon church in your city, state, on your school board...wherever a position of authority is available.

After you take part in the temple rites, you are required to wear a specific underwear garment for the rest of your life.

Those baptized members including girls and women, who are too young to take part in the temple rituals will be required to take part in "proxy" Baptism for the Dead after they also acquire their own "temple recommend".

There are several religions larger than most Christian denominations, and together they are larger than all of them combined. Their adherents for centuries have lived and died and never heard the word baptism. What is the answer for them?

That is a most disturbing question. What power would establish one Lord and one baptism, and then allow it to be that most of the human family never comes within its influence? With that question unanswered, the vast majority of the human family must be admitted to be lost, and against any reasonable application of the law of justice or of mercy, either. How could Christianity itself be sustained?

When you find the true church you will find the answer to that disturbing question.

If a church has no answer for that, how can it lay claim to be His Church? He is not willing to write off the majority of the human family who were never baptized.

Those who admit in puzzled frustration that they have no answer to this cannot lay claim to authority to administer to the affairs of the Lord on the earth, or to oversee the work by which all mankind must be saved.

Since they had no answer concerning the fate of those who had not been baptized, Christians came to believe that baptism itself was not critical in importance, and that the name of Christ may not be all that essential. There must, they supposed, be other names whereby man could be saved.

The answer to that puzzling challenge could not be invented by men, but was revealed. I underline the word revealed. Revelation too is an essential characteristic of His Church. Communication with Him through revelation was established when the Church was established. It has not ceased and it is constant in the Church today.

As I address myself to the question of those who died without baptism, I do so with the deepest reverence, for it touches on a sacred work. Little known to the world, we move obediently forward in a work that is so marvelous in its prospects, transcendent above what man might have dreamed of, supernal, inspired, and true. In it lies the answer.

In the earliest days of the Church the Prophet was given direction through revelation that work should commence on the building of a temple, akin to the temples that had been constructed anciently. There was revealed ordinance work to be performed there for the salvation of mankind.

Then another ancient scripture, ignored or overlooked by the Christian world in general, was understood and moved into significant prominence: “Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?” (1 Cor. 15:29.)

Here then, was the answer. With proper authority an individual could be baptized for and in behalf of someone who had never had the opportunity. That individual would then accept or reject the baptism, according to his own desire.

This work came as a great reaffirmation of something very basic that the Christian world now only partly believes: and that is that there is life after death. Mortal death is no more an ending than birth was a beginning. The great work of redemption goes on beyond the veil as well as here in mortality."

“The Redemption of the Dead,” Ensign, Nov. 1975, 97

Now, this is just a part of what is required to call yourself "Mormon". Even sects that adhere more closely to the teachings of Joseph Smith, such as the FLDS have been excommunicated for practicing polygamy which is STILL part of mormon "scripture"

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded July 12, 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant, as also plurality of wives. HC 5: 501–507. Although the revelation was recorded in 1843, it is evident from the historical records that the doctrines and principles involved in this revelation had been known by the Prophet since 1831.

Exaltation is gained through the new and everlasting covenant; , The terms and conditions of that covenant are set forth; , Celestial marriage and a continuation of the family unit enable men to become gods; , The strait and narrow way that leads to eternal lives; , Law given relative to blasphemy against the Holy Ghost; , Promises of eternal increase and exaltation made to prophets and saints in all ages; , Joseph Smith is given the power to bind and seal on earth and in heaven; , The Lord seals upon him his exaltation; , Emma Smith is counseled to be faithful and true; , Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.

1 Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you my servant Joseph, that inasmuch as you have inquired of my hand to know and understand wherein I, the Lord, justified my servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as also Moses, David and Solomon, my servants, as touching the principle and doctrine of their having many a and b

2 Behold, and lo, I am the Lord thy God, and will answer thee as touching this matter.
3 Therefore, a thy heart to receive and b the instructions which I am about to give unto you; for all those who have this law revealed unto them must obey the same.

4 For behold, I reveal unto you a new and an everlasting a; and if ye abide not that covenant, then are ye b; for no one can c this covenant and be permitted to enter into my glory.

Now, to those of you who are reading this I have ONE question:

If ANY OF US cannot be called "mormon" unless WE adhere to all the requirements (and more) listed above.......WHY IS IT THAT MORMONS BELIEVE THAT ALL THEY HAVE TO DO IS INSIST THAT THEY BE CALLED "CHRISTIAN" AND THE CHRISTIAN WORLD IS REQUIRED TO BOW TO ITS DEMAND?

30 posted on 02/01/2012 7:36:32 AM PST by greyfoxx39 (Romney seems like a creature put on Earth to blend in with the humans and report back what he finds.)
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To: Forward the Light Brigade
They need to get back to where they were 75 years ago. Fewer temples, more faith.

Including racism?

48 posted on 02/02/2012 8:20:20 AM PST by Godzilla (3/7/77)
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To: Forward the Light Brigade
They would go to jail for their views—How many LDS today would do that?

When it came to polygamy and the govt moving to disinfranchise the mormon church - suddenly the prophet had a revelation rather than go to jail.

49 posted on 02/02/2012 8:21:35 AM PST by Godzilla (3/7/77)
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