How did God test the angels?

Vivificat - From Contemplation to Action ^ | 25 January 2012 | TDJ

[stuartcr]

...’ the nature of human sin derives from the nature of the sin of the fallen angels’...what exactly does this mean?

How do you even know if your acquired intelligence is correct?

[cuban leaf]

—So it’s really an example? Not a test?—

I wouldn’t say that. I like Clamper’s word “challenge”, though I like the test element as well.

I think of a test in school. Your grade tells YOU how well you know the material. It is either empowering or convicting, depending on how you do.

[cuban leaf]

—So it’s really an example? Not a test?—

I wouldn’t say that. I like Clamper’s word “challenge”, though I like the test element as well.

I think of a test in school. Your grade tells YOU how well you know the material. It is either empowering or convicting, depending on how you do.

And even if it’s convicting, the conviction can be empowering.

[stuartcr]

Usually when someone asks how, it suggests that sojmeone knows how.

If you don’t understand it, then how do you know that what is revealed to you, is accurate?

[stuartcr]

Usually when someone asks how, it suggests that sojmeone knows how.

If you don’t understand it, then how do you know that what is revealed to you, is accurate?

[Teófilo]

As I explained in the post, just as the primeval sin of the angels was one of pride, rebellion, and self-asserted autonomy over and against God, so was mankind’s original sin. Humanity - recapitulated in Adam - bough into the devil’s lie that we live and be happy outside the will of God. Hence Adam’s sin reflects the same attitude and course held by the fallen angels.

As in every war, good intelligence would make an enemy’s move more “predictable”, leading the combatants to prepare, react, and repulse the enemy. We don’t need to have “total intelligence” - that is, “total knowledge,” - but a picture that is good enough to repell and repulse the attack. That’s how I know I’ve got “good intelligence.”

Spiritual warfare is a lot like human warfare and in many times these overlap. One is a good analogy for the other, hence another example of the use of the “analogy of faith” to obtain limited knowledge, but still “good intelligence” about the enemy.

+JMJ,
-Theo

[stuartcr]

So it’s an exercise?

God does something to person-a, all the while knowing what person-a will do, so person-b may not do the same thing?...all the while, God knows what person-b is going to do anyway?

[stuartcr]

So how does any of this matter, since God knows the outcome of each battle and what each combatant is going to do anyway?

[Teófilo]

God knows because He is “there”, not because He causes the outcome. God witnesses what we do with our free wills and these are valuable for Him because only in the freedom of our wills we can truly love Him and also accept His love.

-Theo

[FroggyTheGremlim]

Well, I'm no angel.

But, near as I can tell, God is certainly testing me lately.

[Teófilo]

God tests us all for our own good, so that our faith is strengthen and our virtues refined. By undergoing a test successfully thanks to His grace, we become closer to Him, and more like Him.

Which is the point of salvation, after all.

-Theo

[stuartcr]

But He still knows what all of our free will choices will be. He knows our time of death, so He must know what our choices will be. He knows what is in our hearts, so He knows if we truly love Him and accept His love or not, right?

[cuban leaf]

—So it’s an exercise?—

I suppose, in a way, maybe. I think of it as showing the person being tested who he is. It’s also a form of training.

IOW, as with most (all?) things God does, it is not singular in purpose.

[cuban leaf]

—God does something to person-a, all the while knowing what person-a will do, so person-b may not do the same thing?...all the while, God knows what person-b is going to do anyway?—
Partly. I do believe that one of the primary functions of the events documented in the OT is to teach humanity, through His relationship with Israel, how we should live and who He is.

But it goes further than that. I believe he tests person A to demonstrate something to person A.

[St_Thomas_Aquinas]

—But He still knows what all of our free will choices will be. He knows our time of death, so He must know what our choices will be. He knows what is in our hearts, so He knows if we truly love Him and accept His love or not, right?—

Your point is... what?

[Teófilo]

He knows it in a way similar to the way I know that a careless person is about to be run over by a bus. I didn't push the person in front of the bus, but I knew that it was going to happen. Granted, this is a feeble comparison but all comparisons we humans formulate when talking about God and his attributes are feeble by necessity. Our yard-sticks are too small to contain Him. But let's go to the core of your question. You're saying that if God is omniscient we lack free will, but if we indeed have free will God is not omniscient which - as Sartre implied - would mean that there is no God. A "one-legged" answer would be that freedom of will is only possible when there are multiple outcomes possible from our moral choices, and we don't know which one will take place, but know that choosing wrongly will end in catastrophe, so we choose the good. Therein our freedom of will lies. I said "one-legged" because, as you will point out, God knows which free choice we will make and, therefore, can what God see fail to happen? The thing is that God sees not only all our choices, but the outcome of each one of them, because He is present in every timeline so-to-speak and for lack of a better term. The deeper insight here is that freedom is radically built into the fabric of nature itself, as that the consequences of our actions have "cosmic" significance. All things considered: how exactly our freedom of will squares with the fact of an omniscient God is something that only those who are saved and are admitted to the Beatific Vision will understand, because they will SEE IT. Until then, we can have interesting, mind-blowing conversations, just as I hope this one has been. -Theo

[Salvation]

How did God test the angels?

[Ecumenical] Lent through Eastertide - Divine Mercy Diary Exerpts: Angels
Lists Every Catholic Should be Familiar With; The 9 Choirs of Angels
[Catholic Caucus: Coincidences That Aren't [Our Lady of the Angels]
ANGELS - FROM THE TEACHINGS OF SAINT THOMAS AQUINAS(Summa Theologica)
The 12 most important things to know about angels
ANGELS: Their Meaning for Our World
Photo captures image of an 'angel' in hospital hallway
Do Angels Exist? (A miracle and a picture have many asking this question)
God Sends His Angels to Watch Over and Guide Us
Angels, Part 3

Angels, Part 2
Angels, Part 1
Angels Among Us Today
God Created the Angels as Individual, Immortal Spirits with Intelligence and Free Will
The Angels in Sacred Scripture
Angels in the History of the Church
Angels - in Heaven, on Earth and in Hell
Catholic Q&A: Angels and Demons (Fr. Thomas J. Euteneuer)
GOD AND THE ANGELS
Question: “Are there really such things as guardian angels?”

[ShadowAce]

...’ the nature of human sin derives from the nature of the sin of the fallen angels’...what exactly does this mean?

There is only one sin. Everything else is just a symptom of that sin.

[stuartcr]

ok thanks

[stuartcr]

To hear his answers.