From Rome to Christ

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[caww]

Humm...don’t know where to begin to find stats on that...I do know that in an abortion debate the excuse of rape or incest were used as a reason for abortion, but they had one heck of a time finding any stats on children born from insist or rape. ..when they did it was few.

The problem with the whole catholic sexual abuse cases is so many weren’t reported and still aren’t. But worse still are the ones which continue as the preditors do not stop til caught and have gone deeper into the church to do their dastardly deeds now it’s been exposed...and those we’ll likely never know of.

[metmom]

In this day and age, no man should take any chances and it’s a fairly simple thing to avoid being charged with impropriety. Just resolve to never be alone with a child.

I know men at church who will not be in a situation where they would appear to be alone with a married woman other than their wife. It’s all to avoid the very appearance of evil, and it does offer protection for them. If one of those men were accused or something improper, I would not give it much if any credibility because I’ve seen how circumspect they are in their behavior.

Besides, it would be much easier to catch a child in a lie than an adult. The child would not be able to give such a consistent testimony if it weren’t true. They’re just not good of a liar to be able to manage all those details and stick to the story without error.

[metmom]

Humm...don’t know where to begin to find stats on that...I do know that in an abortion debate the excuse of rape or incest were used as a reason for abortion, but they had one heck of a time finding any stats on children born from insist or rape. ..when they did it was few.

Well, perhaps the Catholics could produce them.

They're the ones who are melting down about all the false accusations.

Although what's almost laughable, is that the priests who actually molested are barely paying any consequences for their actions, what's to worry about for someone who's only been accused?

If being actually found out isn't going to ruin the man's reputation or have any other consequences, being accused certainly isn't.

Catholics show far more concern over the thought of a false accusation than they do over a valid one or the children victims.

[Cronos]

caww: attests to the catholic way -- yes, it is the American way of "innocent until proven guilty" -- no trial by media.

[Cronos]

In this day and age, no man should take any chances and it’s a fairly simple thing to avoid being charged with impropriety. Just resolve to never be alone with a child.

firstly -- women can be accused too

Secondly, while I agree with you that no man should be alone with a child that's not his and that's pretty easy for someone in my profession or engineers or management folks , how do you do that if you're a teacher or a doctor or in the case I highlighted, a bus driver?

Should children then be kept in a bubble for all of the time?

Thirdly -- how do you prove that the woman was alone with the other person if there is a verbal accusation? Should all women/men record every movement of theirs? The case I cited was only proven false by GPS -- do you advocate that ALL of us carry a government monitoring device ALL of the time?

[Cronos]

I know men at church who will not be in a situation where they would appear to be alone with a married woman other than their wife

Is that possible for a taxi-driver or a doctor or a tutor? Is that possible for say a post-man or a plumber or a carpenter?

how about you have this salaryman going into a lift -- alone with a married woman other than his wife?

[Cronos]

The problem is falsely accused women and men — do you consider it right to have a trial by newspaper? Do you think it right that a person is guilty until proven innocent?

[Cronos]

And I’m not saying the man sees it this way or the other — think of the case I gave you where the man is proven innocent. Even then many will always associate him with that accusation. He may not even get a job, his life is ruined based on a false accusation.

[caww]

Again...move and start over.

[Cronos]

I'm not convinced that's not the case regardless how it's been reported

Search yourself, WE would still remember that someone was accused and still have that lingering suspicion even after the accused is proven innocent.

it's human nature.

Once a person's reputation is destroyed, it is destroyed and more importantly it can destroy the person's life

your statement that "he can move away and start again" is even worse -- the guy moves away and thanks to the internet someone finds out he was accused. People will start to ask "so why did he move away if he was innocent" and the rumours start again, the man is shunned from society and from jobs, his life is destroyed.

whichever way -- whether a woman or a man, the false accusation of child molestation would destroy the person.

It should be innocent until proven guilty -- if there is evidence then convict the scum and toss them to the worse punishments, but only if guilty.

Otherwise you have a situation of guilty until proven innocent and that is not the American way.

[Cronos]

From what you suggested of a man never interacting with children, so that means men should be barred from being teachers or scoutmasters or policemen or busdrivers or taxidrivers.

And women can be accused too -- so should all adults be kept separated from children?

Are you advocating that the government take children away from parents "for their own safety"? really?

[caww]

You’re dreaming if you think any of us are going to escape the media if we do something wrong...heck they’ll come after people to make a story if they can’t find one.

There is no privacy anymore...you might as well accept that fact..again the world has certainly changed...

[Cronos]

I repeat, these statements are not American, are "a person is guilty until proven innocent" if one says:

• I don’t care that the man’s life was ruined
• you work with kids these days you better be steller in you’re approach
• .anthing other than this and you leave yourself wide open for false accusations.
• the man can always pick up and move to another area and start over again
• And the accusation apparently had enough for police to go after him...which they rightly should have. the verbal accusation that was later withdrawn after the girl was shown GPS proof that the man was nowhere near....

i repeat again -- the proven child molesters -- fry 'em, but if there is just a verbal accusation with no proof, the woman's reputation and life can be utterly destroyed. investigate yes, but remember the woman's reputation and life is also innocent until proven guilty

[caww]

Well as usual many catholics see this whole thing as an assault..or as those say here anti-catholic, because the heat is so high for them to act on these Priests instead of dragging their feet.... But it's too late I think...I can't say I see catholicism changing for the leadership will never change it's stronghold...it's just to far gone and cannot see itself yielding to another than itself as it marches to the drum now to unity with other faiths.

What's important for us as Christians are to help those who want to escape so they can meet the high calling of God in Christ Jesus He intended for them. I think that work being done will soon be completed for those who will come to Him....events are moving quickly now and only Gods Grace can slow things down now as it's all picking up momentum.

[Cronos]

1. it's not easy to "move and start over" -- this man is innocent, remember

2. if this happened to you, could you just "move and start over"?

3. with the internet now there is no "move and start over" -- wherever the guy goes in the world, the stigma remains

[Cronos]

But note, I'm not saying "if you do something wrong" -- as you correctly pointed out "they’ll come after people to make a story if they can’t find one." --> and that is what i mean by a trial by newspaper for those verbally accused of child molestation with no evidence

it can be a woman as well as a man

it can be you, no matter how innocent.

you may be on a lift with a child, the child may say that they came to your office or whatever -- the parents may make them say this or they may want to spite you, knowing the damage it will wreak -- if you ARE guilty, then I say fry. But if not, the fact that it becomes guilty until proven innocent on a verbal accusation is wrong.

[caww]

You may have no choice in these situations...the mans innocence has no bearing at this point. He can remain and fight the community who he thinks sees him as an offender...or just move elsewhere.

I honestly don’t see why you’re having such a problem with the idea of moving, both inwardly and outwardly. People do it all the time..and the perverts certainly do!

Seems to me you’re putting to much emphasis on what other people think. It’s a done deal...the guy needs to move on.

The internet is not relevant. Life outside it is.

[Cronos]

.the mans innocence has no bearing at this point. He can remain and fight the community who he thinks sees him as an offender...or just move elsewhere.

I said put yourself in the same position -- you've been falsely accused of child molestation based on pure verbal accusations, no proof.

Even after your innocent is proven beyond doubt, you will be suspected

it's not just "about what people think" but also the fact that they will then deny you job opportunities, friendship, even help knowing that you were once accused. your reputation and your life is over

put yourself in the innocent accused shoes -- would you still say it's ok to consider you guilty until proven innocent?

[caww]

Ok...enough already Cronos...you’re repeating yourself over and over which tends to tell me you’re lonely and just want conversation or something else entirely.

I get where you are coming from and I still say if the guy can’t deal with the fallout then he needs to move...and yes I would do so if I couldn’t handle it. Life is to be lived not wallowed in no matter what the circumstances life brings with it.

Ok...end of discussion.

[Cronos]

here's another example -- > Witness describes alleged sexual abuse by Muncie evangelical pastor

A prosecutor on Tuesday described Matthew A. Kidd as a manipulative predator who abused the trust that came with his status as pastor of a Muncie church to sexually assault three teenagers who belonged to his congregation.

Kidd's defense attorney, however, maintained that his client is the victim of a conspiracy with money at its root

the pastor is innocent until proven guilty, but the trial by jury has already taken place and his name, his reputation, his calling are mud already. if proven innocent, he can't "get up and move somewhere else" as that stigma will remain.