Posted on 12/30/2011 7:07:29 PM PST by rzman21
CB: Jesus quoting from them, the apostles writing about the same events and not once has anyone proven anything in them in error. All prophecies have been fulfilled precisely as prophesied. Any earthly entity saying they are authoritative does not make it so but time has proven no errors or contradictions.
John 10:34-36 34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’? 35 If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be broken— 36 do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?
Jesus Himself just validated the entire OT that the Jews accepted as Scripture at this point.
Nope. You're wrong
Given that you are Ex-Catholic, yes, it is an important point. It is what the Church teaches and yes, I have the right to ask what you believe on what the church teaches.
Absolutely not. The Catholic church has no claim on me. I do not recognize it's claimed authority over me. I do not answer to it. I answer to Jesus and HIM alone.
It is not an important question and no, YOU, nor any other Catholic, have any *right* to ask me anything, nor am I obligated to answer you. You have no authority over me.
You have the prerogative to ask me something, but nothing, and I mean NOTHING, gives you the *right*.
I don't know who you think you are but you need to get over yourself.
Marriage is marriage. The two become one flesh.
God never put conditions on it like the Catholic church does to determine a *valid* marriage vs an invalid one which can be broken apart.
Annulment is only church sanctioned divorce because two becoming one flesh happens in any marriage, not just one sanctioned by the RCC.
So if the RCC church does not recognize the validity of any marriage not performed and sanctioned by it, then the couple is living in sin, by it’s standards.
Does the Catholic church force a couple who chooses to become Catholic after being married outside the Catholic church as non-Catholics to be remarried?
What chutzpah. The arrogance of the church is astounding.
I’m still waiting for his proof from scripture of the bodily assumption of Mary that he says is there.
OK
and
Thank you.
I don’t know. The few times I see reasoned debate keeps me hoping for more I guess.
“Show me something I cited that is not provable by scripture.”
That the apocrypha is not inspired.
“So you would say that the Holy Spirit inspired errors?”
I consider it far more likely that you are in error.
“Tobit claims to have been alive when Jeroboam revolted in 931 B.C. and 210 years later when Assyria conquered Israel in 721 B.C. Then it says in Tobit 14 that he was 112 when he died. Oops!”
Where does Tobit confirm that Jeroboam revolted in 931 BC? How do we know this is the correct date?
“Nebuchadnezzar didn’t rule over the Assyrians he was King over Babylonia.”
You are wrong. The Neo-Babylonians ruled both Assyria and Babylonia.
“You may fall for the lies of the RCC but please don’t expect us to.”
You need to read history.
“Oh please. Do I really need to list the commands against murder, especially against innocents?”
So why then is homosexuality mentioned but abortion is not?
“1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.”
And where does the word ‘substance’ appear anywhere? I don’t see it.
“Even a blind hog finds an acorn once in a while.”
So then why is the Church wrong on the Canon and right at Nicaea.
“So if the RCC church does not recognize the validity of any marriage not performed and sanctioned by it, then the couple is living in sin, by it’s standards.”
Uh, that’s not what the Catholic church teaches. The Catholic church does recognize marriages that are not Catholic, provided that they meet the same standards as the Catholic church.
“Does the Catholic church force a couple who chooses to become Catholic after being married outside the Catholic church as non-Catholics to be remarried?”
You should know the answer to this. No. They don’t, just like they don’t rebaptise people. Marriage, like Baptism is a sacrament across Christianity. That may change in the future, but at present that’s the case.
The reason this might change, where the Catholic church stops recognizing marriages is because of gay marriage and the churches that affirm it.
So you DON’T understand what annulment means. Glad I asked that question.
An annulment means there never was any marriage in the first place. Whether children come about is immaterial to the point.
Prior bond is one thing that comes up, when it becomes known that the person was not free to marry another. Another is getting pregnant before getting married, as that is coercion. Marriage should be undertaken of free will, not because circumstances force the partnership. Another is lack of consummation. Another is the desire not to have children.
Any of these can lead to an annulment being granted, because the Church teaches that there was never a valid marriage to begin with. What this means is that the husband and wife should have come to terms with this before getting married, and that marriage requires both husband and wife to be open to having children.
I’ve seen all of these occur, and it really is devastating to the wife to find out that her husband got a vasectomy, 5 years after getting married.
“That’s the problem with citing someone outside of Scripture. Catholics are so conditioned to follow the teachings of man that it is obviously beyond their comprehension that Christians do not.”
Given as I was a protestant and I used to do the exact same thing, I think I DO understand what is going on here. :)
How can it be beyond my comprehension?
“Quoting something that is more clearly expressed than I could say it is NOT *following* that person.”
Then why are you citing him if you don’t regard him as authoritative?
“But no, when you reference someone else’s work, Catholics are all over you like white on rice that you are one of their *followers*.”
That’s because you claim to follow sola scriptura, but not really. Because you regard the traditions of men to be equally authoritative. When it suits you.
“The Catholic church has no claim on me. I do not recognize it’s claimed authority over me. I do not answer to it. I answer to Jesus and HIM alone.”
I still have the right to ask you questions pertaining what the Catholic church teaches, because you claim understanding of such.
As you stated yourself, you are familiar with the Church and know the ins and outs.
You can’t claim authority on one hand and then dodge questions on Catholic theology. One or the other. If you don’t want to answer the question, then fine. Stop claiming then that you are an authority on the Catholic church.
“How about you show from scripture the bodily assumption of Mary like you stated was there before I answer any more of you questions?”
Already Answered. Read my earlier post. :)
If there’s children, there’s marriage. The two have become one flesh and have children to prove it.
“If there’s children, there’s marriage. The two have become one flesh and have children to prove it.”
So if I’m already married that means I have two wives?
No, you have not. Site the scripture. And don’t use some “look at my previous post” nonsense. If it’s easily proven you should have no fear of repeating it for any who lurk and haven’t seen it before.
“probable opinion”?? Try to sort that out and you'll be lost in the thickets of theological sea weed.
This unlikely, unprovable, unscriptural “probable opinion” however must be believed, to do otherwise is declared impious and blaspheme.
Can you imagine basing you eternal salvation or damnation on “probable opinion? That alone should strike fear in the heart of any who proclaim to be Catholic. Is it any wonder they are unsure of salvation?
Philippians 1:6 "Being confident of this very thing, that He which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ"
Jude:24 "Now unto Him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory "with exceeding joy"
Romans 4:21 "And being fully persuaded that, what He had promised, He was able also to perform."
Mark 5:36 "...Be not afraid, only believe"
Malachi 3:16-17 "Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him."
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