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To: Bobsvainbabblings
Chuckling. Just because I might forgive you, does not mean that God also forgives you. Here are some links about the Sacrament of Penance. Open some and read them to find out the truth.

Contraception: The Reason Catholics Have Abandoned Confession
Penance and Reparation: A Lenten Meditation(Catholic/Orthodox Caucus)

Helping Penitents To Achieve True Conversion
Selling Confession
The Sacrament of Penance: (also known as "Confession" or "Reconciliation") [Catholic Caucus]
The Sacrament of Healing: Perfect and Imperfect Contrition [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]
Confession (Catholic Caucus)
Part 3 of 10: Sacrament of Penance, Why do I have to confess my sins to a priest? [Catholic Caucus]
The Same Old Things.
Importance of Confession During Lent - Making a Good Confession
Need for Annual Confession - (is it necessary?)
Around the clock Confession to take place in New York City
Friday Fast Fact: Friday Penance
The Essentials of the Catholic Faith, Part Two: Channels of Grace, Penance
[Catholic Caucus] Confession – Is It Still Necessary?
Confession to God Alone? Scripture Alone?
Pope: There's an Answer to Empty Confessionals [Catholic Caucus]
Pope alarmed by decline in confessions
Part 2 of 10: Sacrament of Penance, Church’s symbols help explain penance [Catholic Caucus]
Part 1 of 10: Sacrament of Penance, Jesus placed great value on forgiveness [Catholic Caucus]
Confession Questions >From the Pew [Catholic Caucus] Introduction to 10 Part Series
Part 1 of 10: Sacrament of Penance, Jesus placed great value on forgiveness [Catholic Caucus]

Beginning Catholic: The Sacrament of Reconciliation: Rising Again to New Life [Ecumenical]
It’s Confession Time (Dioceses Nationwide Promoted the Sacrament of Penance This Lent )
Why do I have to confess my sins to a priest?
Why do Catholics have to confess their sins to a priest instead of praying straight to God? [Ecu]
When did confession to a priest start? [Ecumenical]
Confession, Confession Everywhere (Cardinal Says Youth Day Is Reviving the Sacrament)
In One Church, Confession Makes a Comeback (Catholic Caucus)
Priests should encourage recovery of Sacrament of Reconciliation
A Gift That is Always in Season (Sacrament of Penance) Catholic Caucus
The Epidemic and the Cure [The Sin of the World and the Sacrament of Reconciliation] (Confession)

Confessional Advice
Thinking Inside the Box: An Attitude for Confession
MORTAL SIN and HOLY CONFESSION - The Antidote of Death
A Comeback for Confession
What You [Catholics] Need to Know: Penance (Reconciliation, Confession) [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]
Confessing to 'sins' is booming in America (Evangelicals and Protestants take up practice)
Emerging Trends: The Return to the Confessional
Get Thee To A Confessional! (beautiful insight for those who dread going to Confession)
CONFESSION AND CONFUSION
Salvation: Just click and confess

MESSAGE FOR ALL CATHOLICS (in preparation for Divine Mercy Sunday - April 15)
Pope Hears Confessions of Youth
Priests say more Catholics returning to confession
Confession’s Comeback
Repentance and Confession - Introduction [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]
Catholics called from the idiot box to confession
Benedict XVI Extols Sacrament of Penance - Says Priests Need to Make It a Priority
The Early Church Fathers on Confession / Reconciliation - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
What happened to confession – Changing mores reflective of use
The Spiritual and Psychological Value of Frequent Confession

Pick a sin, any sin (Confession gone awry)
St. Ephraim the Syrian: On Repentance
Serious about God? Then get serious about confession
Lesson 20: Confession (Part 2) BY FATHER ROBERT ALTIER
Lesson 19: Confession (Part 1) BY FATHER ALTIER
Reasons for Confession [Sacrament of Reconciliation]
Holy Week Recovers Celebration of Penance (at St. Peter's Basilica) - photos!
Those in Mortal Sin Can't Go to Communion, Says Pope
Make a Good Confession
[Sacrament of]Confession

73 posted on 12/31/2011 10:03:11 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation; All
 
I don't need to read links to what your church's fathers claim The Christ taught about forgiveness of sin. I can get it from Him.
 
The Christ mentions forgiving sins on many occasions. Only in Matthew 18 does He explain what sins we, or the apostles, can/could and must forgive. Nowhere does He give permission to a man to forgive sins against God for God as your religion teaches. The following is from a previous post about Matthew 18; 

"In Matthew 18:15-18 we see Christ instructing His disciples on how to correct a fellow believer. It is extremely telling in this instance that Our Lord identifies the Church rather than Scripture as the final authority to be appealed to. He Himself says that if an offending brother "will not hear the Church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican" (Matt. 18:17) – that is, as an outsider who is lost. Moreover, Our Lord then solemnly re-emphasizes the Church’s infallible teaching authority in verse 18 by repeating His earlier statement about the power to bind and loose (Matt. 16:18-19), directing it this time to the Apostles as a group (7) rather than just to Peter: "Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven; and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven." (Matt. 18:18)". 

Let's put that in context and examine what Jesus taught.

15Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

This is one human who has sinned against anther asking that brother for forgiveness.

 16But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

Here that same brother is told to take one or two more. No mention of them being any more than a brother or sister in Christ.

 17And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

Here he is told to take it before the church, his local group of brothers and sisters in Christ. The church has no duty other than being a witness that he tried to get the other brother to forgive him. The church forgives no one because they weren't the ones being asked to forgive. The brother has done all he can so that sin is loosed from him even though the other brother didn't forgive him. He is no longer responsible for it. The unforgiving brother has his sins against God bound by his un forgiveness

 18Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

This is how binding and loosing comes about. It is not a special gift as the Catholics teach. It is the result of our actions. If we do not forgive the sins of a brother committed against us, when asked, God cannot forgive or sins against Him when we ask. Jesus explains more in 23-35.

 19Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

 20For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Notice He didn't include saint's in heaven. Only people on earth. Hmmm

 21Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?

Peter asks Jesus how many times he has to forgive a brother who sins against him, Peter. Brother forgiving brother. 

 22Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

 23Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.

 24And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.

 25But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.

 26The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.

 27Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.

 28But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellow servants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.

 29And his fellow servant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.

 30And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.

 31So when his fellow servants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.

 32Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:

 33Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellow servant, even as I had pity on thee?

 34And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.

 35So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

We have to forgive to be forgiven. If we do not forgive/loose a brother when asked, our sins against God can't be forgiven/loosed. This was not only for the apostle as your church teaches. It applies to all of us.

This is the Catholic version of the Lord's Prayer

"Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name.
Your kingdom come,
your will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread,
and forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil." 
 
You have probably said this hundreds, if not thousands, of times when reciting the Rosary and never realized how ludicrous and un-Christian your religion is. Having sins, changed to debts, and those who sin against us, change to debtors, might be part of the problem in not understanding what The Christ was teaching with this prayer.  
 
We are asking the only Father who can forgive our sins against Him, to forgive those sins. He can only comply with that if you forgive your brother when he asks. God the Father can, and will, forgive our sins because the penance has all ready been paid for on the cross.
 
Salvation, you gave over 50 links to what your religion claims are for remission of sin and/or penance. Jesus says the wages of sin is death. How do you justify your religion's claim that a man can have you say; "10 Hail Mary and 5 Our Fathers", or anything else, and it absolves the death penalty? 

I am sure the links pertain to forgiving sin. Can you save me a lot of time and tell me just one link where The Christ explicitly gave the apostles, or any man, the ability to forgive a man's sins against God for God. If you can't, I will have to believe they are like the example above, Peter being told he has to forgive another man's sin against him. 

May God lead us all to His truth, BVB

 

 
 

 


 

82 posted on 01/03/2012 12:54:50 AM PST by Bobsvainbabblings
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