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“The deal is not sealed until you stand in the Particular Judgment.”

And this here is the fundamental disagreement between Catholics and Protestants. We (Protestants) believe the deal is sealed when we receive Christ as our Lord and Savior, not on Judgment day.

To put it another way, Bible-believing Christians believe you are justified at the point of receiving Christ, since He already paid the penalty for our sins. Therefore, there is no further need for us to be “purified” in Purgatory or any other place. Once justified, then the sanctification process begins where we grow continually more Christ-like while never fully reaching perfection on this side of Heaven.

Catholics, on the other hand, believe that you must be sanctified (or purified) before being justified. And since in their view only a few people qualify as saints and go straight to Heaven, most will have to spend some time in Purgatory getting fully purified before entering Heaven.

In my view, the belief in Purgatory is unbiblical and runs entirely counter to the fact that Christ paid for our sins IN FULL at the cross. He didn’t almost pay for them, or pay just 90%, he paid them IN FULL. So there is no further need for us to pay for them ourselves.

In addition to all that, the author of this thread brings up a very good biblical proof for direct entry into Heaven with the thief on the cross. This was a wicked person who had received the penalty of death. If anyone would have deserved some time in Purgatory, it would have been this thief. Yet Jesus told him “TODAY, you will be WITH ME in paradise.”

I don’t think anybody questions Christ’s work on the Cross here. Salvation depends upon our faith in Him, so that He then forgives us. This occurs at initial saving faith and also occurs when we sin and return to Him in confession and repentance per 1stJohn 1:9.

Another issue remains regarding the resurrection body, where the corruptible must put on incorruption. Prior to the resurrection body, where are we? Do we have a different interim body, so to speak prior to the Resurrection? Are we resurrected immediately? If immediately, why are the dead raised first at the Rapture?

I’m not defending the doctrine of Purgatory yet, but am simply asking questions which I believe are valid at my stage of doctrinal growth.

Also, I'm sorry but your statement about our beliefs "believe that you must be... before.." is wrong -- as believe that The first work of the grace of the Holy Spirit is conversion, effecting justification in accordance with Jesus' proclamation at the beginning of the Gospel: "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

Moved by grace, man turns toward God and away from sin, thus accepting forgiveness and righteousness from on high. "Justification is not only the remission of sins, but also the sanctification and renewal of the interior man.

Justification detaches man from sin which contradicts the love of God, and purifies his heart of sin. Justification follows upon God's merciful initiative of offering forgiveness. It reconciles man with God. It frees from the enslavement to sin, and it heals.

Justification has been merited for us by the Passion of Christ who offered himself on the cross as a living victim, holy and pleasing to God, and whose blood has become the instrument of atonement for the sins of all men.

that's Catholic teaching from the catechism -- we have always believed that Justification is the first work of the grace of the Holy Spirit -- it is not merited, it is not at the end of your sanctification etc.

Also, there is no "place" or "time" of the final stage of sanctification (aka purgatory)All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, through the blood of the lamb -- the "payment" is not relevant here, we are already saved at justification irrespective of the stage of sanctification.

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Please do note that your post gave an incorrect statement of what I and other Catholics believe. I hope this explains that to you.

"brings up a very good proof" -- actually the death of the good thief has no relevance to final sanctification as Christ promised him that when still under the Old Covenant. The New Covenant was sealed with Christ's sacrifice.

the good theif would have been in Sheol under the old Covenant, yet we see that Christ's promised him paradise - because Christ ended the old covenant and took those righteous up to heaven.

the death of the theif is related to the ending of the old covenant, not relevant to the structure of the new.

>The mystery of Christ's life, suffering & death. In God's Mercy, He permits us to suffer with Jesus Christ. Colossians1: 24 ‘Now, I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filing up what is lacking in the affliction of Christ on behalf of his body, which is the church.’
>There were -three- people on calvary. The good thief joined his sufferings to Christ & the bad thief cursed Christ & died. The mystery of God's Mercy: Jesus Christ pays off -the tab- in full BUT he lets us share in the payment. ‘Without God I can't & without me he will not.’
>Simon the Cyrene teaches us that there is ‘NO free ride in Christianity.’ We all get to help Jesus Christ carry his Cross. We call it ‘our’ Cross but everything belongs to God> we join our sufferings to the True Cross.
>Purgatory is the place where our souls are finally perfected to enable us to stand before the Perfection of God. In your response, you acknowledge a need for a final purification of most souls. The Church calls the place where it happens> Purgatory. It's explained on the Internet & it is biblical. Purgatory is a ‘suburb’ in Heaven & is not a separate place. Heaven exists in the Heart of God = Heaven is a big place.
>Christ suffered & died & then rose from the dead on the third day. The Gospel Truth, John 20: 17 ‘Jesus said to her, Stop holding on to me, for I have NOT yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and tell them, I am going to the Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’ In my first comment I said, -Jesus didn't walk the Earth handing out Bibles saying, -Argue about this- rather He built a Church & out of the Church came the Bible. Please, look to the Church for the explanation of ‘Today you will be with me in Paradise.’
The Catholic definition of the Christian Virtue of Hope: ...it makes a person desire eternal life... >Ordinary hope is the desire to obtain a future good. Hope is a word used on purpose to describe a desire for a future good. TRUE Salvation for the individual is at the end of this life & the beginning of the next. >The Day of Universal Judgment will be a very interesting day. Have Hope as God gave us Holy Mother our Church, the body of Jesus Christ, to help us get into Heaven.

Nope, he wouldn't,Christ certainly had the authority to completely forgive sin as He did frequently in the bible. A Catholic believes that because we are all sinners, there is a method, called the Sacrament of Reconciliation which enables us to confess (admit) our sins to God, through a priest (whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them) which, accompanied by perfect contrition, frees us from any further responsibility for them. Purgatory is for less than perfect contrition, which most of are guilty of, and for unconfessed minor (venial) sins, and perhaps overlooked shortcomings which we all have. Catholics believe that to enter the kingdom of God, perfection is necessary. The "good" thief was promised, by Christ, that they would be together in paradise that day....they were...Christ pardoned any and all penaalties which the man might have faced. He can do that, He does do that, but not always, lest we lose our sense of responsibility for our own behavior. You cannot do anything you please, and just figure "oh well, Christ covered my sorry butt so I'm not responsible for my actions"....I don't think so!!