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Posted on 12/20/2011 8:45:06 AM PST by SeekAndFind
“By far the most important event in the entire rise of Christianity was the meeting in Jerusalem in around the year 50, when Paul was granted the authority to convert Gentiles without them also becoming observant Jews.”
So wrote Rodney Stark, the Distinguished Professor of the Social Sciences and co-director of the Institute for Studies of Religion at Baylor University. His most recent book is “The Triumph of Christianity: How the Jesus Movement Became the World’s Largest Religion” (HarperCollins).
For Christians in particular, I recommend it if only because so many have a tenuous grasp of Christianity’s real history, as opposed the versions that too often are casually accepted as truth.
The truth is that the rise of Christianity is one of the most extraordinary stories of the past two millennia. Stark not only has the knowledge of his vast subject, but he writes with such felicity that it is hard to put the 500-page book aside for both its revelations and its devotion to the facts.
Despite the fact we live in a society that has at most only 4% who self-describe themselves as atheists, the more active among them have the audacity to demand that Christmas be banished to the privacy of homes or the pews and pulpits of churches. They rebuke religion in general as the source of conflict and wars, but ignore the spiritual support and ethical lessons that Christianity provides along with its promise of salvation.
While Judaism was the bedrock of morality and faith that gave it birth, Christianity made it more accessible and significantly includes the Torah as part of its liturgy.
To ignore the rise of Christianity is to be ignorant of an essential element of Western history. Likewise, to ignore the threat of Islam whose beginning is usually dated around 622 CE and which exploded following Mohammad’s death in 632 CE is to ignore the greatest threat to civilization, past and present. Less a religion than a battle plan for world conquest, Islam preaches death to all “unbelievers.” Take heed!
Stark provides a summation to his book and, even so, I shall select only parts of it in the interest of brevity.
“The first generation of the Jesus Movement consisted of a tiny and fearful minority” of a religion, Judaism, that had already been around for a thousand years or more before the assertion was made that the messiah had come and was a crucified Galilean rabbi who mainly and briefly preached in that area of Israel.
“The mission to the Jews was quite successful: large numbers of Jews in the Diasporan communities outside of Palestine did convert to Christianity.” The Diaspora were the Jewish communities in the Middle East and throughout the Mediterranean nations, including Rome, living in places where pagan faiths were dominant.
“Christianity was not a religion based on the slaves and lowest classes of Romans, but was particularly attractive to the privileged.” Moreover, in its earliest years, women often played important roles. Contrary to popular belief, however, “Paganism was not quickly stamped out, but disappeared very slowly.” Paganism involved the worship of multiple gods as well as a belief in magic.
Despite impressive cathedrals, in medieval times church worship among Christians was largely ignored and, as often as not, the clergy were ill-informed about the faith and sometimes not even baptized.
Despite what is said of the Crusades, they were a campaign to reclaim the holy land from Muslims who had conquered it and they were led by men who knowingly bankrupted themselves and often died in this cause. Though Christianity had been widely observed in the East, the armies of Islam destroyed all but remnants, thus shifting its survival to Europe in the West.
“Science arose only in the West because efforts to formulate and discover laws of nature only made sense if one believed in a rational creator.” Even the misnamed “Dark Ages” were actually times of technological development. Likewise historians have determined that the Spanish Inquisition was “a quite temperate body that was responsible for very few deaths and saved a great many lives by opposing the witch hunts that swept through the rest of Europe.”
Perhaps the greatest surprise was the damage done by Constantine who, having made it the religion of his empire, gave rise to an indolent and hypocritical Church hierarchy initially composed of Roman aristocracy. It fostered a clergy who were ignorant of the faith and indifferent to its mission. Not until the Reformation was competition introduced, forcing the Church to return to piety, as various Protestant sects emerged, and energized Christianity in the process.
Stark concludes that “The claim that religion must soon disappear as the world becomes more modern is nothing but wishful thinking on the part of academic atheists. Religion is thriving, perhaps as never before. More than forty percent of the people on Earth today are Christians and their number is growing more rapidly than that of any other major faith.”
And that, as they say, is the good news.
Again, believers in what, according to whom?
Paul “believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved – and your house”. Believe on meaning what, according to whom?
These things have I written unto you
Which things which mean what according to whom?
“where two or three are gathered in my name there will I be also”.
Do you have a mouse in your pocket or can I pick the two or three?
It appears to me that in practice, in reality, in your theory, the church starts and ends with you.
The gospel message of life through faith in Christ according to you, according to me, or according to whom?
Surely, Christ did not establish His Church to be based on, and determined by, each individual. That's not in Christ's ministry, prayer, in the NT Church in scripture, and it's woefully dysfunctional in practice.
According to the individuals who are called by the Holy Spirit and according to illumination given them through scripture and their understanding of it with the guidance of that Holy Spirit. We won’t stand with a group when we go before the throne of God.
>>Which things which mean what according to whom?<<
All of us who study scripture with the guidance of the Holy Spirit rather than the guidance of some carnal human with an agenda of control.
>>Do you have a mouse in your pocket or can I pick the two or three?<<
How flip. I truly am sorry you don’t understand that promise of Jesus. “where two or three are gathered in my name there I will be in the midst of them. No need for some guy in a pointy hat and bath robe.
>>It appears to me that in practice, in reality, in your theory, the church starts and ends with you.<<<
I actually starts with Christ but is promised to individuals not to organizations. It’s truly sad that Catholics don’t understand the term “church” outside the RCC cult.
According you; according to him; according to her; according to me. A bunches of churches of individuals. Definitely not the Church in scripture; not even close.
All of us… rather than…
"Us rather than" according to whom? I'm guessing… you.
I truly am sorry you don’t understand that promise of Jesus. “where two or three are gathered in my name…
I do understand. But you're not Christ and not His Church, not all by your lonesome. And all I've only heard you talk about here is the Church according to you. And the "true beliefs" of the Church according to you. Which are different from your fellows.
Those who wear wedding rings are engaging in pagan practice, or not, right? Some are born saved; some are born doomed, right? There is free will acceptance of Christ; there's no such thing as free will acceptance, right?
Feel free to talk amongst yourselves.
It’s truly sad that Catholics don’t understand the term “church” outside the RCC cult.
You haven't done a very good job of describing it as anything other than a contra-scriptural cult of one.
If you’re happy with the cult you’re in I would suggest you stay there. Why would you care what others believe anyway? Just remember that when there are millions of people missing from this earth “in the twinkling of an eye” it wasn’t aliens.
According to the scriptures He gave us....it's very clearly written there. Let me put it in very simple terms which none can deny or question.
The old testament declares time and again throughtout..."He's coming"....the New Testament declares..."He is here".....Revelations declares..."He is coming again".
The whole Bible in entire reveals Him.....The King Of Glory.. and 'the only one worthy' to open the book of life.
If we know much about Christ's prayer for us in the garden, or much about the Church in scripture and afterward, we know it is not just about me or you, but about being one Body, not individuals.
And, so, it appears you've run out of arguments.
I appreciate your replies.
D-fender....what game are you playing here? You know the answers as well as we do....and your questions appear to me to just be an evasive distraction for you....but just as a refresher:
Believers in Jesus Christ.....according to God's written Word which clearly speaks of Him as our "counselor"...our "guide" and of whom we can rely on without question. All authority is given Him as you know. Why so hard for you to grasp?
I don’t think D-fenders looking at the answers he’s given...but seems to be doing what so many do...looking for something which isn’t there rather than what’s clear is there....avoiding the truth isn’t new...it’s hard for some to see what could shake their belief system. Especially if they have spent years defending it.
One only needs to read scripture to understand who the true Rock of the church is and the RCC is lying about it. That alone would eliminate it from being the true “church”.
Pride or fear?
Believers in Jesus Christ.....
Gnostics, Arians, Nestorians, LDS, Monarchists all say they are believers in Jesus Christ. "Believers in Jesus Christ" according to whom?
according to God's written Word
Can't count the wide variety, from Oneness Pentecostals and other Modalists to Unitarian Messianic Jews who would lecture both you and I on what God's written word says - and it's not the same Jesus or God we believe in. "According to God's written word" according to whom?
which clearly speaks of Him as our "counselor"...our "guide" and of whom we can rely on without question.
How can all these interpretations of the same scriptures relying on the same guide end up in radically different beliefs about who God is? "Guided" to what according to whom?
All authority is given Him as you know.
Same question. If He is our common authority, why does the same authority claim such different beliefs? It doesn't. It can't possibly.
Why so hard for you to grasp?
Because it is so obviously not true; if it were true the question "according to whom" would be meaningless; we would all agree based on the same scripture, the same guide and the same ultimate authority.
But we do not. It is a dysfunctional proposition to begin with. It never worked, can never work for His Church, One, Holy and Universal in its belief.
This alone should make plain that it is not what Christ intended. It is also not what His Apostles instituted and not what we see in scripture.
thanks for your reply.
Is this where we trade proof texts and interpretations of Greek and Aramaic - ending with each of us still convinced of his own argument with a third in the wings to disagree with us both, dividing into three-out-of-three versions of what constitutes the Christian Church?
Which is true? Do we take a vote or not?
According to whom?
I was just getting around to reading this thread and see that the discussion has degraded from the joyous news of the triumph of Christianity to "whose" Christianity is better/real/true.
What I believe is more important than a nameplate on a church door is the common faith that binds us all into the one body of Jesus Christ. Back in the first century the people who came to saving faith in Jesus Christ met regularly to edify and encourage each other as well as sharing of food, ensuring no one went without. It was a cohesive group held together by the common faith of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who died and rose again to save us from our sins. These people also shared a deep and abiding love for each other that was sorely tested by their common persecution from the Roman overlords.
The Apostles taught the truths as Jesus taught them and also the additional truths he revealed to them through the Holy Spirit after his ascension. The Apostles discipled others and established those who had gifts to teach and pastor the fledgling local groups that were springing up like wildfire. Because they could not worship openly, they met in private homes, in catacombs, anywhere they could. These elders/leaders trained and discipled others and the "church" grew as local congregations were set up and evangelists brought more and more into the Body of Christ.
When the Apostles knew that Jesus was not coming back immediately, the Holy Spirit inspired them to enscripturate all that believers should be taught - and they had the Old Testament as their example. As the leading Apostles wrote their epistles and copies were made and circulated among the spread out churches along with the life and teachings of Jesus while he was there, the New Testament was being formed and a collection of them was used to continue to teach the true faith long after the Apostles were gone.
Of course, many millenia have gone by and the "church" is now numbered in the billions of people. There are vast numbers of local churches with many differing with each other as to method of worship, leadership structure and differences in certain theologies. But, regardless of the name of the particular institution or organization, the one binding unity should be the same faith in Jesus Christ as Son of God who died and rose again to save us from our sins. THAT is what binds all Christians and what makes any person a member in the one body of Christ.
When I think of this time of year, with so many different customs and traditions surrounding the birth of our Savior, I really hope we can put aside our differences and concentrate on the one unifying truth we share - Jesus.
For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life." (Jn. 3:16)
Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:
Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.
For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life." (Jn. 3:16)
Amen.
You just aren’t getting it D-Fender.....and I say this with respect of you...but...you remind me of the deciples when Jesus time and again let them know he was going to die and they just didn’t get it, even though He used scripture still they didn’t get it.
Some things are simply a matter of faith in Christ...yet you keep asking “according to whom?”.....I believe possible your looking for earthly confirmation when He himself wants to confirm what you believe...just as he did with his deciples. You seem to want mans authority...earthly authority,... when our God is not of this earth...He is Spirit and not limited by an organization or leadership of.
the Lord knows exactly how to bring his truths to us ‘individually’......even though you say that’s not the way it should go...it is the way he operates when we need the assurances or clarification which can only come from Him.
Yes it gets very personal....and it should...even Jesus told Peter that man had not revealed to Him that he was the Christ.
You seem to want the catholic church to be THEE church....well maybe it should be for you for reasons you alone know....but for others we choose differently....no different than the churches in Revelations and people who went to various ones then...each had it’s own problems and were at various levels of understanding of the things of God....but they all had their foundations in Christ Jesus...He is the authority according to Him.
Nearly two thousand years have gone by since Jesus prayed that we would be one, and you can’t even find us being one in one church, let alone in all of Christendom. ....So it says to me, as Jesus reminded us in the Lord’s Prayer,... that I need to pray much more about my relationship with God and my understanding of his kingdom...it isn’t about the church ...it’s about our relationship with Him and understanding that is the lens in which we see the church.
Nope. This is where I feel so fortunate to not be enslaved under the legalistic constraints of the RCC cult. It’s where, once again, I understand the “as little children” promise from Jesus. No theological machinations, no rituals, no holy water, incense or incantations. No indoctrination of children to fear some pedophile priest. Just a childlike faith in Jesus who said “come unto me”.
This is where I so appreciate how Jesus told us to go directly to the Father in His name because He understood the evil intent of man who only wants to control. It’s where I feel so blessed to be completely freed from guilt of sin having been redeemed and cleansed by the blood of Jesus. This is where I can say to anyone “if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed”. This is where I can truly say when listening to those who would enslave us under the legalistic rules and rituals of the RCC. “There but for the grace of God go I”.
Nearly two thousand years have gone by since Jesus prayed that we would be one, and you can’t even find us being one in one church, let alone in all of Christendom.
Yes, that is one major aspect of my point. This is not what our Lord intends for us, it is not good for us.
it isn’t about the church
I think it is. If we are not one with each other, in our worship of all places, how can we be one with God?
it’s about our relationship with Him and understanding that is the lens in which we see the church.
Most certainly we have a relationship with God on an *individual* level, but if we are only individuals, we have lost more than half. We are to be family in the Church. We cannot have a full relationship with one member of our family and no relationship with another.
Do you see what I'm saying here? We cannot have a full relationship with our sister - as a sister - if we are estranged from our mother.
Doctrines and views of what is Church that promote, encourage, require individualism are not what our Lord intended and not good for us. Than much, IMHO, we can know.
Thank you for focusing on this part and for your courteous reply.
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