Posted on 12/15/2011 10:14:12 AM PST by Cronos
Sadly, many in our brotherhood would answer “yes” to this question. Denominations have for years taught that it does not matter what church you attend, as long as a person is sincere and honest. Many in the Lord’s church have swallowed this idea. They cry long and hard that there are sincere, devout Christians in any given denomination. It is no wonder, then, that many congregations of the Lord’s church have joined hands with denominational churches to promote or to participate in any number of things. Of course, they consider their actions to have Biblical backing. They proclaim the words of Jesus in defense of their endeavors: "other sheep I have, which are not of this fold” (Jn.10:16). To them, “this fold” represents the Church of Christ (denominational concept of the Lord’s church), and the other sheep outside of “this fold” represent God’s children scattered among the denominations. Does this interpretation have credence? Is it the case that there are devout Christians in denominations? The answer is no to both questions.
The passage under consideration does not support the idea that there are devout Christians in denominations. To the dismay of those who would espouse this soul-damning doctrine, this passage destroys their convoluted thinking. There is no hint of such a doctrine taught in this passage, nor is it even possible that this passage could teach such. The New Testament knows nothing of denominationalism. In the first century, there was one church and only one church (Eph.4:4). Although the seeds of denominationalism were being planted during the first century, these seeds did not bloom until after the close of New Testament times. To claim that John 10:16 deals in any respect with denominationalism is to force a 21st century interpretation on a 1st century passage.
The latter half of the verse under consideration inflicts even more damage upon the idea that there are devout Christians in denominations. Christ proclaimed that the “other sheep” would be brought into “one fold” under the care of “one shepherd.” This one fold is the one church! And this one church is under the care of the Great Shepherd Jesus Christ! Those in denominations follow the voice of Luther, or Calvin, or Wesley, or Pope John Paul II, but they are not following the voice of the Great Shepherd! The other sheep to whom Jesus was referring were the Gentiles. Though there were some Gentiles who sought God, and anticipated the coming of the Messiah, the Jews and Gentiles remained separated. Through Christ’s death, he would bring both Jew and Gentile together in one body, one fold (Eph.2:14)! The Lord’s church today is a fulfillment of John 10:16—both Jew and Gentile in one body under the care of the Great Shepherd.
Are there devout Christians in denominations? No. Are there children of God in denominations? Yes, but only because they chose to leave the safety of the one fold, the Lord’s church, to follow the doctrines and commandments of men. Those who have done so must repent and return to the church of our Lord before it is eternally too late! PM
***Like most baptism rejecters,***
I’m not rejecting it. You are just making it a wall of separation between your group and others who may believe the same way but don’’t dot the i or cross the t YOUR WAY.
I remember, in high school, a girl who was a good Christian in a baptizing church who was crying because her CoC boyfriend did not consider her a Christian.
It is the same way I was not considered a Christian even though I had been baptized by immersion, in a real proper running water biblical scriptural immersion, and not some tank in a church, and why many other churches are not considered by your group to be Christians because you find some irrelevant reason to separate yourselves.
I am reminded of a certain gent who went into the temple and prayed....”Thank you Lord I am not like other men are...” “I”...”I”..”I”..(do it right).
This very article from the Mabelvale CoC, where I went to church for a while, proves that point.
There you go thinking you KNOW us again.
You may want to sit down for this Ruy, it won't fit your (45 years ago) impression of us.
There are people in my congregation who, gasp, were baptized in other groups who we hold in full fellowship. I know, I know, that doesn't fit your preconceived idea of the CoC.
Incidentally it is commonly taught in the CoC (well, perhaps not in Mabelvale) that the name on the door is irrelevant as long as the people inside are following the teachings of scripture.
Numerous posts ago I acknowledged that your baptism was perfectly valid if it was between you and your Lord, how is that dotting an i or crossing a t?
You've regaled me with several anecdotes you suppose indict me by association. Ruy, you aren't informing me of anything when you declare you've encountered self-righteous jerks in the CoC. (And let's be honest, they exist in every group.)
***I acknowledged that your baptism was perfectly valid if it was between you and your Lord, how is that dotting an i or crossing a t?****
Well, it wasn’t valid to the Mabelvale or the Lowrance CoC years ago, and when I asked about other church’s baptisms to a CoC preacher just a few years ago he said they were not valid even though they were done “correctly”.
And from what I get with this Mabelvale article it still isn’t valid because it wasn’t done “right”.
I have no problem with their rejection as I have seen that there is much more to salvation than just getting wet. And it isn’t things “I” have to do, it is things that were already done by Christ.
R2nd — you can discuss over here how your Church of C built Western civilisation
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