Try not to twist my words to say what you want them to say Mark. You know I didn't say God was to "blame" for the Reformation which implies it was a bad thing. (You know that sort of communication was in the Garden of Eden as well.) The Reformation began because bad men within the church would not comply with God's will for His church
So let me elaborate further... that because the church leadership (man) refused to obey God and instead allowed and encouraged pagan practices within His church, and indulgences with horrible and grotesques tortures by Bishops if the people didn't comply,... God raised up men to speak out against it's practices, ( Martin Luther's 95 propositions against the doctrine of indulgences comes to mind), and with that these words ring true:
"If the work be of God, who shall stop it?... if it be not, who can forward it? ....Not my will, nor theirs, nor ours; but Thy will, O holy Father, which art in heaven.”
You confuse the Catholic Church with 'Rome'
No I most certainly do not Mark....... And since Jesus said..."My kingdom is not of this world" can the authority of a vicar/pope/magesterium extend beyond those of his superior?"...of course not... but the Roman Catholic Magesterium and the Pope would of course and do say otherwise as follows:
"We declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff." ...(Pope Boniface VIII, the Bull Unam Sanctam, 1302).
"....The strong and effective instrument of salvation is none other than the Roman Pontificate." ....(Pope Leo XIII, Allocution for the 25th anniversary of his election, February 20, 1903; Papal Teachings: The Church, Benedictine Monks of Solesmes, St. Paul Editions, Boston, 1962, par. 653).
"There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved." .....(Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, 1215.)
You will not understand just 'what' the Church of Jesus Christ actually consists of.
I do most assuredly understand 'WHO' the church of Jesus Christ truly consists of...and that is all those who have put their trust in Jesus Christ as their Savior..which is not a earthly building or location.
So then yes we will indeed agree to disagree.
Try not to twist my words to say what you want them to say Mark. You know I didn't say God was to "blame" for the Reformation which implies it was a bad thing.
Then are you saying that God was responsible for the Reformation? Come on, let us be plain.
The Reformation began because bad men within the church would not comply with God's will for His church
Yes, and Martin Luther lived out his life as landed baron; Ulrich Zwingli got to play soldier; and Jean Cauvin assumed absolute rule over a city-state. That was God's will? If not, then what is it that you discern as God's will?
The Mormons? The Jehovah's Witnesses? The uncounted and unchartered Pentecostals? The Branch Davidians? The Raelians and whatever Quix believes today? What makes you think that you understand God's will better than, for example Gregory of Nissa? Augustine of Hippo? What makes you right and ALL of the Councils wrong?
You confuse the Catholic Church with 'Rome'
No I most certainly do not Mark....... And since Jesus said..."My kingdom is not of this world" can the authority of a vicar/pope/magesterium extend beyond those of his superior?"...
Yes you do. You routinely confuse the Catholic Church and the Latin branch. The only route that Jesus told us is through Him to salvation. He set up the means - the Church. We know of no other. It is the pride and hubris of men that claim otherwise.
You will not understand just 'what' the Church of Jesus Christ actually consists of.
I do most assuredly understand 'WHO' the church of Jesus Christ truly consists of...and that is all those who have put their trust in Jesus Christ as their Savior..which is not a earthly building or location.
However, that also consists of believing in the institution that He set up and that we have Scriptural proof, not just evidence of it and what it should mean to Christians. The Catholic Church is that institution and not some mallfront sham set up last week as a tax dodge.