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To: caww; Quix
You are blaming the Reformation on God?

Try not to twist my words to say what you want them to say Mark. You know I didn't say God was to "blame" for the Reformation which implies it was a bad thing.

Then are you saying that God was responsible for the Reformation? Come on, let us be plain.

The Reformation began because bad men within the church would not comply with God's will for His church

Yes, and Martin Luther lived out his life as landed baron; Ulrich Zwingli got to play soldier; and Jean Cauvin assumed absolute rule over a city-state. That was God's will? If not, then what is it that you discern as God's will?

The Mormons? The Jehovah's Witnesses? The uncounted and unchartered Pentecostals? The Branch Davidians? The Raelians and whatever Quix believes today? What makes you think that you understand God's will better than, for example Gregory of Nissa? Augustine of Hippo? What makes you right and ALL of the Councils wrong?

You confuse the Catholic Church with 'Rome'

No I most certainly do not Mark....... And since Jesus said..."My kingdom is not of this world" can the authority of a vicar/pope/magesterium extend beyond those of his superior?"...

Yes you do. You routinely confuse the Catholic Church and the Latin branch. The only route that Jesus told us is through Him to salvation. He set up the means - the Church. We know of no other. It is the pride and hubris of men that claim otherwise.

You will not understand just 'what' the Church of Jesus Christ actually consists of.

I do most assuredly understand 'WHO' the church of Jesus Christ truly consists of...and that is all those who have put their trust in Jesus Christ as their Savior..which is not a earthly building or location.

However, that also consists of believing in the institution that He set up and that we have Scriptural proof, not just evidence of it and what it should mean to Christians. The Catholic Church is that institution and not some mallfront sham set up last week as a tax dodge.

176 posted on 12/28/2011 8:19:46 AM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: MarkBsnr
The only route that Jesus told us is through Him to salvation. He set up the means - the Church..... that also consists of believing in the institution.....The Catholic Church is that institution.

Do you mean the Catholic church or the Roman Catholic Church or the Latin Catholic Church, or the many and varied conglomeration which is out there? Which of all these are you referring for there are many? It's time you be specific when you speak of the church Mark.

The body of Christ is the church, believers do not have to align with any institution to follow Christ. It's not a requirement for salvation by any means. All thru the scriptures we see that it's thru believing in Christ Jesus and His "finished" work. Nothing we do nor the church building we attend is going to usurp His rightful place, within the heart of the believer...for they know who they have believed in and are persuaded that Jesus is able to keep that which they have committed to Him..and this being sealed by His Holy Spirit.

Certainly it is a good thing to gather together as Christians do. The disciples and others did just that as well. And we are asked not to forsake gathering together. So the building, be it a denomination or someones basement, to worship God is acceptable. God is not contained by any denomination nor are His hands tied to any one organization claiming such.

Some seemingly need a set of stoic and binding laws and adherence's to those, as well as a litany of other rituals and practices to 'feel' religious or/and have a sense they have passed certain requirements earning their way into Gods favor.... But Jesus said "no man comes to the Father except thru me"..He didn't say thru an organization, in fact He had plenty to say to those who attempted to incorporate laws, rituals, etc. which opposed His words otherwise.

Christ has equipped believers to spread the gospel message thru and of His Holy Spirit operating among men... and that message brings with it Freedom from laws and rituals and practices...."If the son sets you free you are free indeed

177 posted on 12/28/2011 10:12:45 AM PST by caww
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