The dreaded Christmastime ward sacrament meeting [Mormon Merry Smithmas!]

Ogden Standard-Journal ^ | Dec. 24, 2009 | Doug Gibson

[Colofornian]

Christmas carol, "What Child is This?"
Haste, haste to bring Him LAUD / The babe, the son of Mary [To Jesus Christ]

From 'Praise to the Man' lyric you just cited
the earth LAUDS his fame [To Joseph Smith]

Boy, I didn't know the "earth" was to "laud" Joseph Smith as we do Jesus Christ

Ah, the Mormon legacy upon the world: Jesus Christ gets competition from Joseph Smith

And God/Jesus Christ gets competition for praise, worship, glory, honor, adoration from "peer wannabes" -- otherwise known as "The Mormons"

Mormons, have you properly "lauded" Joe Smith today?

[robiso22]

This is amazing. I am a Mormon and this last Sunday was our Christmas program. There wasn’t one mention of Joesph Smith, praising Joesph Smith, “buttering him up” for entrance into the celestial kingdom, or anything like that. It was about Christ, like it always has been for the past 20+ years I’ve been in attendance. One could solve all this religious bigotry and zeal by just attending one of the Christmas programs instead of disparaging something you only know second if not third hand.

[reaganaut]

I am a Mormon and this last Sunday was our Christmas program.

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If Christ is the center as you claim, why have your ‘Christmas program’ early?? How about on the 25th? Just a thought.

And contrary to your protestations, this article and the emphasis on Smith is exactly what Christmas time meetings were about in every ward every year. A couple of years I even went to Midnight Mass with some Catholic friends to hear a service that focused on Christ rather than the mundane or Smith.

Come back and post your sacrament bulletin for the 25th because I have seen more than one that had Smith on the cover and can link a video where another ex-mormon shows his wife’s ward Christmas bulletin and Smith was on the cover. So, nice words, but no sale - I know better.

[Colofornian]

I am a Mormon and this last Sunday was our Christmas program. There wasn’t one mention of Joesph Smith, praising Joesph Smith, “buttering him up” for entrance into the celestial kingdom, or anything like that. It was about Christ, like it always has been for the past 20+ years I’ve been in attendance. One could solve all this religious bigotry and zeal by just attending one of the Christmas programs instead of disparaging something you only know second if not third hand.

Are you dissing another Mormon's testimony (Doug Gibson's) about what this season tends to be like where he is at in Utah?

You're not going to claim are you, that you're like JWs in that you can go to any Kingdom Hall in the world and have the exact same focus on a given Sunday?

Isn't the focus distinct depending upon where you are meeting?

You can't promise that your particular LOCALIZED situation -- which may not even be prevalent beyond your meetinghouse -- is "cookie-cutter'ed'" across the nation can you?

[svcw]

I have many times, and no they never did.

[Tennessee Nana]

Welcome to Free Republic N00b..

Did you sign up just to abuse one of our resident experts on Mormonism ???

I noticed you told us that you had only been a mormon for “the past 20+ years”

We also have BIC FReepers in these threads...

As for myself I first “experienced” Mormonism 40+ years ago...

Consequently I have also stayed far away from “attending” all those 40+ years..

So most of we Christians in these threads cannot be said to be “disparaging something we only know second if not third hand”

Most of the FReepers in here appear from your own post to be witnesses to first hand accounts that you may not know anything about...

The rest of us have learned through them or other means...

Why dont you tell us what you know about the celebrations of the birthday of the mormon prophet Joey Smith ???

and the songs that are sung to him during your “attendance” ???

What of the things your later prophets said about Joey Smith ???

“No man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial Kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph. . . .” “He reigns there as supreme a being in his sphere, capacity, and calling as God does in heaven.” Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, 289.

On October 9, 1859, Young said,
“From the day that the Priesthood was taken from the earth to the winding-up scene of all things, every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are — I with you and you with me. I cannot go there without his consent”
(Journal of Discourses 7:289).

“He (Joseph Smith) is the man through whom God has spoken... yet I would not like to call him a savior, though in a certain capacity he was a god to us, and is to the nations of the earth, and will continue to be.”
- Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:321

“You call us fools; but the day will be, gentlemen and ladies, whether you belong to this Church or not, when you will prize brother Joseph Smith as the Prophet of the Living God, and look upon him as a god...”
- Herber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses 5:88

“If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by him [Joseph Smith]; if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him [Joseph Smith]”
- (as quoted in 1988 Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide, p. 142)

There is “no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God”
- Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190

“I tell you, Joseph holds the keys, and none of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him. We have not got rid of him, but he stands there as the sentinel, holding the keys of the kingdom of God; and there are many of them beside him. I tell you, if we get past those who have mingled with us, and know us best, and have a right to know us best, probably we can pass all other sentinels as far as it is necessary, or as far as we may desire. But I tell you, the pinch will be with those that have mingled with us, stood next to us, weighed our spirits, tried us, and proven us: there will be a pinch, in my view, to get past them. The others, perhaps, will say, If brother Joseph is satisfied with you, you may pass. If it is all right with him, it is all right with me. Then if Joseph shall say to a man, or if brother Brigham say to a man, I forgive you your sins, “Whosoever sins ye remit they are remitted unto them;” if you who have suffered and felt the weight of transgression—if you have generosity enough to forgive the sinner, I will forgive him: you cannot have more generosity than I have. I have given you power to forgive sins, and when the Lord gives a gift, he does not take it back again.”
- Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p.154-155

[Tennessee Nana]

PING to #26

[Colofornian]

One could solve all this religious bigotry and zeal by just attending one of the Christmas programs

Or you could read the following recent threads and see that Doug Gibson's testimony is confirmed and reinforced from MANY Mormon sources.

I especially recommend these four articles from Mormons...though the fourth one is not Christmas specific:
* Dealing with “Smithmas” [Mormon worship of Joseph Smith]
* “Praise To The Man”: A Review Of The Annual Joseph Smith Memorial Sermons [Mormon Merry Smithmas]
* Joseph Smith: a witness of Christ [O Come, O Come EmmanSMITHuel, anyone?]
* Praising the man [Mormon Merry Smithmas!]

These other recent threads provide additional evidence:
* Reasons Joseph Smith Is More Important Than Jesus [Mormon Merry Smithmas!]
* 'Praise to the Man' honors Joseph Smith [Mormon Merry Smithmas!]
* Joseph Smith: Blessed Be His Name [Mormon Merry Smithmas]
* Joseph Smith Jr.—Prophet of God, Mighty Servant
* Tis the season for Smithmas; Whom do you worship? [Mormon Merry Smithmas]

[reaganaut]

One could solve all this religious bigotry and zeal by just attending one of the Christmas programs instead of disparaging something you only know second if not third hand.

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First of all, telling the truth isn’t religious bigotry.

Second, see my tagline - it is firsthand info (for many years - temple worthy active tithepaying good Molly Mormon) not second or third hand.

Third, no matter how much Mormons want to think they are Christians - the fact is they reject the Jesus of the Bible in favor of an ‘elder brother’ who already earned his Godhood. Christians worship Christ because he is GOD INCARNATE (not just one of many Gods or the physical (through intercourse) son of God -as opposed to the rest of us (even Lucifer) who are only spiritual sons and daughters of God the Father.

Finally, I can source all of this from LDS sources. My mission is to get as many Mormons to open their eyes to the reality of Mormonism and leave it for a real relationship with a real Christ, not ‘religion’.

[reaganaut]

Sometimes I forget that these Mormons actually believe the lies they toss out. Sigh. It really was a lifetime ago in many ways since I was that blind...

[reaganaut]

Good catch on the nOOb thing nana, it appears this was his first post.

But lets cut the boy some slack, maybe he will stick around an learn things about his religion. It wouldn’t be the first time - or second or even third - that a Mormon came on these threads to defend Mormonism and ended up leaving it.

So, Rob, welcome to FR - stick around and we would love to discuss the LDS church with you. I think you will find the FI’s to be very knowledgeable and good with sources.

[Colofornian]

So, Rob, welcome to FR - stick around and we would love to discuss the LDS church with you. I think you will find the FI’s to be very knowledgeable and good with sources.

Yes, welcome.

How nice you've "enrolled" at the Flying Inman 'Campus' for Continuing Mormon Education.

We tend to do things a little along the lines of a "Paul Harvey" format...where Mormons can learn "the rest of the story" they fail to hear from their leaders and peers.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

robiso22,

You wrote, "One could solve all this religious bigotry and zeal by just attending one of the Christmas programs instead of disparaging something you only know second if not third hand."

A couple comments to reflect back to you.

1. You used the term, "religious bigotry" in your post. May I gently remind you that your mormon religion believes all other churches are false. In fact, your mormon church sends out 50,000 missionaries to tell Christians that their churches are false. Yet here you are accusing others of religious bigotry. I'd love to hear your explanation justifying your own religion's "religious bigotry".

2. You may not be aware that there are many former mormons here on FR, who have become Christians and left the mormon religion, have come to know the real Jesus Christ, and know what happens in mormondom from the inside - some having Temple Recommends before they came to know the real Christ. As such, they've seen it from the inside out. It isn't second or third hand.

3. You are not the most objective person, being in the position of supporting your leadership, despite the falsehoods, the immoral and dishonest behavior of Joseph Smith and participating in the rituals that are never commanded in the Bible - let alone never commanded in your mormonic verses. Yet you must believe it all, swallowing it all, supporting it all, in order to stay a mormon. "When the leaders have spoken, the thinking is done. I encourage you to think for yourself and evaluate the facts, evidence and logic. Until then, you will not be close to objective.

Welcome to FR, n00b. Participate freely. My sincere wish for you is that He will open your eyes to see the truth about Him, and about His Gospel of Grace.

Merry Christmas.

[reaganaut]

Flying Inman ‘Campus’ for Continuing Mormon Education.

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We NEED a graphic for that. And I think dear Rob may be in the running for player of the week.

[Elsie]

One could solve all this religious bigotry and zeal by just attending one of the Christmas programs instead of disparaging something you only know second if not third hand.

Simple: YouTube

[Tennessee Nana]

Too hard ???

OK..

Merry Christmas Rob...

[Elsie]

I think you will find the FI’s to be very knowledgeable and good with sources.

And yet...

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Acts 24:5
“We have found this man to be a troublemaker

[Elsie]

May I gently remind you that your mormon religion believes all other churches are false.

“Behold, I am sending you out as sheep in the midst of wolves, so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves.”

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Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).

Joseph Smith: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).

 

 

 

Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).

 

 

 

Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).

 

 

 

Orson Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses

, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses , 18:172).

 

 

President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses , 10:127).

 

 

 

James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).

 

 

 

President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).

 

 

 

More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).

 

 

 

President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).

 

 

President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 2, p.196).

[Elsie]

Flying Inman ‘Campus’ for Continuing Mormon Education.

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We NEED a graphic for that. And I think dear Rob may be in the running for player of the week.

LAst week, a particularly strong tremor sent shockwaves through...

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[Tennessee Nana]

That statue has breasts...

Moroni is a Moronia...