[smvoice]

I won't speak for Cynical Bear, but the "Creeds enunciated by the ancient Church" that I would pay attention to are the creeds that speak of the Assumption of Mary. You know, like the Apostle's Creed or the Nicene Creed, or any other accepted creeds of the early church. After all, they were closest in time to the event. So I'm CERTAIN they would have included it in their creeds. Especially in light of the fact that it is one of those doctrines a Catholic MUST believe for salvation.

[narses]

“So I’m CERTAIN they would have included it in their creeds.”

You are? Really? So what is the last Council you consider dogmatic? If any?

[smvoice]

WHAT? You say the Assumption of Mary is not part of the Apostle's Creed, or the Nicene Creed, or ANY of the other accepted creeds of the early church? One of the basic tenats of the Catholic faith, and one that every Catholic MUST believe to be saved one day. And it's not even in the summaries of the FUNDAMENTAL BELIEFS OF THE FAITH [185-192]??

What good is a creed if a fundamental belief, crucial to one's salvation, is MISSING? NOT MENTIONED? SILENT ON THE SUBJECT? Hmmmmmm....creeds are crucial to "Christianity" WHY, again?

[boatbums]

You make a salient point. If the belief in Mary's sinlessness, her ever virgin status, her assumption bodily into heaven, her necessary intercession for us and her status as Mother Of God were so critical for Christians to believe, then why is there NO Scriptural basis for any of those? The apostle John was given the duty to care for her after the Crucifixion and he died in old age many years after Mary would have died, yet he said NOTHING about those doctrines, not in the Gospel, not in his epistles nor in the book of Revelation. I don't know about you, but I would think that if those really WERE apostolic traditions why were they omitted from Holy Scripture? Why did it take hundreds of years later for the ideas to take root? If they are SO critical to the Christian faith, then why is Scripture silent?

Of course, Mary is an example to us of unflinching faith and, of course, we should honor her for her place as the mother of our Savior. We love her as a sister in the Lord and rejoice that one day we will meet her in Heaven. She is honored and respected without the mistake of placing her between us and Jesus. We will all be equal to each other in Heaven and we will give all glory and praise to him. There will BE no mother, father, husband or wife, but only brothers and sisters together in Christ. Only Jesus is our mediator with the Father and because of HIM we have received grace, mercy and forgiveness.

I think some people here confuse age or numbers or might to make something right, but God is the source for all truth and the Bible is his infallible authority gift to us his children. We should know by now that fallible men are not worthy of our unquestioning trust. That is why God gave us the Scriptures as well as the indwelling Holy Spirit who will lead us into all truth.